talkmagic.co.uk

I performed card tricks for two friends (that I had performed for before) and a third that was a friend of those friends (who I had never met) - As soon as he knew I knew some magic stuff of course he was eager to show off his own party trick, which he did... he looked at me and said "he probably knows this one", I wanted to humor him and said "yea, this one is great". My other two friends were baffled by his trick. We both pretended he had read their body language to achieve his trick. (he was obviously aware of the false solution technique)

After his trick I did a few things - (spelling to a selected card and some pseudo psychology of guessing a selected card).

He then took it upon himself to reveal HIS trick to my other two friends.

I was quite taken aback by this, as he was obviously someone with knowledge of cards/bar bets and liked that he had baffled my two friends with HIS trick.

My only thought is he wanted to reveal HIS trick to show how clever he was and say "look how clever I was to fool you with this"

Is this the mentality of what is essentially a bar man who has learnt a trick and wants to show people how clever he is, or a bar man who hates magicians with a little more knowledge than him (i.e me in this case) and wants to say "look how easy it really is"?

I think it is most likely the former.

Sometimes we perform a trick that is so devious in it's methodology that we feel that explaining it would be even more impressive than the trick itself. It very rarely is.

I remember performing the Hoy Book Test to my girlfriend, who I have kept completely away from being a magical test subject, and she was absolutely amazed. She genuinely had a real sense of wonder in her eyes and I almost ruined it by saying..."Don't you see! I just..." etc because I was more impressed that the method had actually worked!

I imagine also, that somebody who is literally just showing off a trick that he learnt, as in your experience, because he clearly is not showing anything other than a trick, the method could quite possibly be more interesting to the spectators than the performance. Compare that to your effect using pseudo-psychology, the impressive thing is the premise, so if you were then to go on and say..."Actually I knew what card you took anyway because they are in a special order." the whole illusion would be shattered and whilst they may be minutely impressed that you knew the order of the cards, it would not come close to the amazement of the original feat.

Yea, I think he was quite pleased that he had fooled them with his trick and probably remembered how he felt when he learnt the method and wanted to be the one to pass on his knowledge, that seemed more important to him.

He also said he didn't like magicians, but he loved watching the Masked Magician shows. Maybe he was joking and had a really dry sense of humor.

I'm going for the former. A lot of people who know one trick will reveal it to others. They don't really know the value of withholding knowledge.

I just go 'Shhhhhhhhhhh Don't tell em!'

Sometimes people want to show me the one trick they know.
That's fine, but I always make sure they don't tell me (unless it fooled me, and then I'm a big hypocrite!)

When anyone explains any trick to anyone they are doing that person no favours, just to give themselves a feeling of importance. Many people still feel a moment of wonder after watching a well performed magic trick. They may never get that feeling again if the secret is explained. They will not appreciate that knowing how a piano works doesn't make a pianist!
We get a different experience, a different pleasure, from watching a good performance than the lay people do. I find it difficult to surrender to theatrical illusion when I see a slick and well polished performance. However my appreciation of the hours of work, practice and talent, gives me all the pleasure I desire, and I often learn something.

I know that you're not supposed to reveal how tricks are done, but I don't always think this rule is the best in certain situations. If people are amazed and don't ask how it was done, or ask in a joking sort of manner, then of course dont tell them. But I think that by withholding everything it can lead to some resentment in the spectators, because it can become something like 'I can do something you can't, and I'm not telling you how to do it'. This is obviously veering towards appearing obnoxious and egotistical (not that this bothers some performers, of course). I personally think that if people seem to display genuine irritation, it's a good idea to offer a false solution, or an incomplete solution, etc. I think by doing this sometimes you gain more respect.

I know some people will now say that you're performing magic wrong if people respond in this way, as you're presenting it as a puzzle rather than a trick. I'm not sure I agree with this to be honest. Some people just don't like to be fooled or that they don't understand something, and some people don't like magic.

This is just my opinion obviously.

cc100, Of course you are entitled to your opinion but I will never believe in exposure. If people are offended by the performer's attitude or are offended by what he or she has done there is something wrong with either the act or the spectator.There are many ways to keep our secrets politely.

Dear cc100,

You are performing magic wrong if you are getting this reaction.

Don't worry, I can sort it. Any of the below recommendations will be fine.

a) Don't do magic, learn to juggle.
b) Don't do magic to people who don't like magic.
c) Perform magic in an engaging and entertaining way, so that people are interested and engaged in you as a performer and the performance, then they won't care how it is done.

Sincerely.
Jing.

I appreciate your point Jing, but the problem with statement (c) is that I can perform something for spectators who seem to really enjoy it, and then perform the same thing in the same way for others who just burn your hands and are determined not to be impressed or enjoy it. If I'm performing magic wrong, is the first reaction then invalid?

cc100,
It's difficult to judge where your problem might be without knowing the kind of tricks concerned, or the kind of patter. Do you get these reactions wirh all your tricks or just with card tricks and if the latter are they 3 card monty, sucker tricks or gamling themes?
Have you tried Lybrary.com? They have a good selection of patter and presentation ebooks at very reasonable prices.

Thanks Acolophon, I'll have to check some out. It's not something that happens all the time, just the odd occasion in the past. To be fair to Jing, I don't perform all that often and when I do it's just to family and friends. So perhaps they don't react like strangers would - I'm not sure. I am a beginner pretty much and fairly new to magic, so Jing might be right when he (presume it's a he) says that I'm not performing things properly.

The point I was kind of trying to make is that some people just don't like to be fooled, and even when you perform it tongue-in-cheek or entertainingly they still don't like it. As an example, I really like Derren Brown's performances, and I think most magicians would agree that he performs in an entertaining and engaging manner. However, I have some friends (who are non-magicians) who think he is arrogant and 'up his own *rse'. So by applying the theory of 'presenting magic as a puzzle rather than magic', is Derren somehow not presenting it properly to these people? Can you see my point?

So this is the reason why I think offering some kind of explanations of tricks to people who don't like to be fooled can be effective, as then they are less likely to feel aggrieved at being fooled. I didn't say the explanations have to be complete tutorials, or even that they have to be correct. I mean, everyone knows that magic isn't real and that at some level it involves sleight-of-hand or a gimmick, etc. I hope that makes some kind of sense, and I'm not saying that I'm right or that anyone has to agree with me.

There is that famous quote...
'Countless the pleasure is a great, as being cheated as to cheat.'

Ok I was going to write something out, but it's only what I've read here.
http://www.honestliar.com/fm/works/whymagicsucks.html

My favourite bit is at the end,
"And so I love what magic occasionally is more than what it most often is presented as. And I hate every self-styled conjuror who misinforms the public about what magic can be."

This also looks quite interesting.
http://magic.about.com/od/beginningmagic/a/041708mistakes.htm

FInally something from my own experience. I'm not sure if this is on the same lines, but...

I perform close up magic for groups of people. Very rarely is it one on one - if it is, for example I spot someone by themselves at the bar, then I have routines for that situation.
However when I approach a group, if someone isn't interested in magic, but everyone else is, I will ignore that person. If they are next to me, I physically block them out, I don't put my shoulder in their face, but I do turn away from them to perform to everyone else. Most times people will just sit there and let everyone else enjoy the show.

Exceptions.
One time, this lady was vocal in her dislike of magic, but everyone else enjoyed it - I gave her a card which wasn't her card, and she turned it straight over, and said, 'that's not my card' so I said, 'what you doing magic on me for? have you done this before?' From then, I had other people at the table handle the props - A short self working routine followed and then I left.

The worst situation I have been in is when one guy shouted things out 'it's up your sleeve', 'that's two cards', 'you're c*** (not the best)' 'magnets' - basically anything whether or not that was the method - I just left. After which the table called me back later and apologised for their friend who had been 'sent on an errand.'

Sometimes people get uppity about performing magic to their girlfriends, because they are insecure about their realtions with them - I just ignore that situation and carry on as usual, then leave.

And finally from the mentalist Dunninger,
'For those who believe no explanation is necessary, for those who don't none will suffice.'

People who hate being fooled, as you put it, don't deserve an explanation - I'm there to entertain. If they don't like my style of entertainment, that's fine, I'm not going to force it on them. For those who enjoy my entertainment, then it is all magic - no sleight of hand, no IT, it's magic - I know, you know and they know it's NOT REAL, but let them discuss the methods when they are in the car on the way home. For the fifteen minutes, I'm with them - magic exists. I think that's wonderful, right - much better than being 'clever'.