talkmagic.co.uk

Hi Guys,

Heard word from a fellow Magi today, he was explaining that he recieved a mail addressed from Jay Sankey.

Apparently, Jay was claiming that he has been cut a raw deal from Penguin Magic, i dont know the details but i know the overall concept was to rally support from us Magi to help aid his fight against Penguin.

Has anybody else heard about this? .. as i state this is ONLY rumour and i have no evidence to back it.

Thanks,

Rob

Reproduced with the kind permission of the author, Jay Sankey:


To all of you who, over the past two years, have warned me about doing
business with Penguin Magic...

...YOU WERE RIGHT!!

Actually, I've had growing suspicions over the past 16 months, but I was
still really hoping I would never have to write this e-mail. I was really
hoping that Acar Altinsel and Maxwell Murphy at Penguin Magic would be
willing to be team players. But no matter how hard I've tried to make
things work with them (and believe me, I've busted my butt!)in the end it
seems they are only interested in one team: THEIRS.

I remember once reading, "How relationships begin is often how they
continue." I also remember how, when I first began doing business with
Penguin Magic a few years ago I received literally dozens of e-mails from
concerned magicians and mentalists around the world warning me about "the
Penguin Magic business tactics." Even seasoned magic dealers warned me
about "those Penguin guys" and how they have a tendency to sell knocked-off
versions of other people's magic products.

At one of my earliest meetings with Acar and Maxwell, I remember telling
Acar about the warnings and asking him, "How do I know you will never steal
from me?" He replied, "Because we don't steal from our friends."

I now can't help but wonder if I was ever really "their friend" or just
someone else they planned to rip-off from the very beginning.

Silly as it may sound, at first I believed Acar and Maxwell. I believed they
would be honorable business people. I guess because I wanted to believe.
That's just the kind of person I am. I want to think the best of people and
it takes a lot before I finally come to distrust them. But as the months
went by...

They replied to fewer and fewer of my e-mails and phone calls.

Advertisements they promised to place in magazines never materialized.

The agreed upon hotlink from the Penguin website to my site suddenly
disappeared.

Checks began arriving later and later.

And all the while, I would receive at least a few e-mails every week from
magicians complaining about the disrespectful service they got from Penguin
Magic.

Then another strange thing started to happen. Penguin Magic started to order
much smaller quantities of some of my most popular products and in some
cases completely STOPPED ordering them...and yet they still advertised them
on the home page of their website! For example, over a year (!) went by
without them ordering a single "IN A FLASH," yet month-after-month it was
listed as one of their best-sellers. Hmmmm...

I started to have some very dark suspicions. After all, what could be
easier than having a printer punch holes in packs of cards and toss them in
baggies? And keep in mind that at this point they were the world's only
seller of Sankey Magic!

Then a few months ago, when I asked them if they were interested in joining
my newly formed world-wide network of authorized dealers, they jumped at the
chance. But AGAIN, almost from the very start there were clear signs that
they had no intention of playing by the rules...

For the first few weeks of September they posted many of my products at
lower-than-agreed upon prices and undercut all the other authorized dealers
they had just agreed to work together with!!
(In fact, up until the time of this e-mail, if you go to the very first page
of the "Jay Sankey Store" on their US website, you'll see that they CONTINUE
to advertise "Three Ring Circus" for $30 -instead of the agreed upon price
of $40 that all my other dealers are selling it at!)

And then in late September of this year, after they agreed to remove a
collection of "Free
Jay Sankey Downloads" (which I had produced as a way to thank my wonderful
customers) I received news that they had put them back up "behind the
scenes" on the Penguin website! (For all I know they are STILL UP!)

And in even just the last few days, the Penguin boys have pulled yet another
"fast one" and posted a parade of slashed prices on their UK website for
several of my newly upgraded products with the instructional dvds. Again
without my consent and in outright violation of the agreement they entered
into as an authorized dealer earlier this fall!

The list of Penguin Magic's transgressions and violations goes on and on and
on...

As I said at the beginning of this e-mail, I was realy hoping I would never
have to "go public" with this information. After all, a business
relationship is like any other relationship: there are private sides to it
and it can sometimes take everyone a while to work out the kinks and
overcome misunderstandings and miscommunications.

But recently, when I received yet more e-mails from some of you complaining
that you had in good faith ordered from Penguin Magic some of my newly
upgraded products and then received in the mail some of the OLD and
OUT-OF-DATE products (!!!)...well, I knew the time had come to expose the
boys at Penguin Weasel for who they are. I just wouldn't feel right if I
didn't warn you, especially after all you have done over the past few years
for me, my wife Lisa and my son Mason.

I'm also extremely serious about honoring the trust given to me by all the
other dealers in my recently formed world-wide network of authorized
dealers. Unlike the unethical cowboys at Penguin Magic, many of these
dealers have families to feed and long-term ties to the magic community.

I hate talking badly about other people, but there was simply no way I could
remain silent while Penguin Magic continues to pull the c*** (not the best) they have have
been pulling for way, way too long. If I did that, I would feel like I was
letting down far too many honest people.

With that in mind, I would like to ask you to consider boycotting Penguin
Magic. Despite their clever web-marketing, they are still nothing more than
cold-hearted, flightless birds who have only got as far as they have by
riding on the coat-tails of other far more honest and creative people.

As a creator and manufacturer of magic products I have the final say in who
markets my products. But as the all-powerful CUSTOMER you in fact have the
final say in who will sell any products at all.

By finally going public with all this information, I'm trying to do my part.
No I hope you do yours. Vote with your wallet and let's all work together to
make Penguin Magic extinct today.

Thanks very much for your help!

Yours sincerely,
Jay Sankey

PS. The fast-talking boys at Penguin Magic have only purchased a mere 25 of
each of my newly upgraded products with the instructional dvds. If they
continue to advertise these products for sale for even just another week or
so...I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Thankyou for that Will,

Well .. no more buying from penguin for me ...

Rob

This was really disappointing information. If this email is 100% credible, I'll support Jay and spend my money elsewhere...

nice....thanx...

rcarlsen wrote:This was really disappointing information. If this email is 100% credible, I'll support Jay and spend my money elsewhere...

Yes it is.

I got the email from Jay directly and asked him if he was OK with me reproducing it here.

OK, then I really hope every magician in this forum, follows Jay's wish.

Please make this thread sticky !

Now I see how Penguin can sell magic cheaper than everyone else!

It'll hurt my wallet but I will definitely avoid them.

Might I suggest that people unsubscribe from their email list - I sure will!

Kati

That's really terrible news. Someone as prolific as Jay really ought to be treated better than that. As was mentioned this morning in another thread http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/sutra58277.p ... ght=#58277 - we know what to do. Don't place business with anyone using these sort of unacceptable practices and, equally important, let them know that you disapprove and won't be placing further orders.

PS I checked Jay's website where he lists US and International dealers - Penguin aren't on those lists yet both US and European Penguin show a large range of Sankey Magic for sale.

so advised so pledged.

For a slightly different view on this see here.

He went into it with his eyes fully open and calculated that the benefits of being in bed with Penguin (cash for him) outweighed the downsides (buyers of his products being treated badly). And they probably did. After all he’s only slagging them off now he’s got a network of new dealers. His righteous indignation on behalf of people who bought Sankey Magic effects through Penguin and got shabby treatment rings just a little bit hollow. I wonder if Jay has negotiated more favourable margins with his new dealers than his contract with Penguin allows for.

a fair comment but maybey he wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, either way it dosn't excuse them of selling knockoff's of his work.

I agree with Discoman .. its impossible to point the finger of blame at anybody other than Penguin on this one.

Rob

Well I've never bought from them anyway, but now I won't be doing it on purpose! I have to admit that the first I'd heard about Penguin being like this was when Craig Browning mentioned it the other day as I am not a regular member at Magic Bunny where it seems to have been discussed at length.

The gist of the Magic Bunny situation was that they'd negotiated a deal with Penguin whereby Bunny members ordering items would generate an amount of commission for the Forum. Cheques in payment of this commission were slow to arrive and stopped altogether at one point with e-mails and phone calls chasing overdue payments not being returned and thus leading to a rather stiff warning being posted on Magic Bunny advising folks not to shop at Penguin. The content and tone of that warning were eerily similar to Jay's message - initial trust not being respected or returned and leading to a complete severance of the relationship.

Of course Jay would be in it for the money, it's how he makes a living so he has every reason to complain if he's being short changed. Also, if the items being supplied aren't as advertised, i.e. older versions supplied instead of the later versions, then his reputation is being damaged.