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ace of kev wrote:Well, The common name is the Erdnase Colour Change

Ask your self, how many times have you heard it been called the others?

Maybe a few times, then think about how mnay times it has been reffered to as the Erdnase Colour Change

You misread my post.

The colour change in RRTCM is not the Erdnase. So the question I posed was, what is it? In RRTCM it is simply referred to as the Colour Change.

As to the other names for the erdnase, I agree completely. Thats why I explicitly used the term common name. Having looked at all the contributions, I still think we have a bit of a problem.

1. Brad Christian presented a change which he called the Classic and the Houdini. He stated it wasn't the Erdnase. Correct me if I'm wrong magic_evmeister as I don't have Ninja 1.

2. Sankey presented the erdnase and also referred to it as the Houdini.

3. No one else has heard of the Classic Change, other than on Ninja 1 (or at least hasnt posted here).

Either Brad is wrong and they are all the Erdnase, in which case its academic and we can all forget about it.

Or theirs a colour change we don't know about.

Sorry. Thats the 3rd time this week!

At the bottom just for clarity is a scan from the Ninja 1 DVD cover. As you can see the last chapter is entitled:

17. Classic Colour Change (Houdini, not Erdnase)

When you watch this chapter you will be taught to do this:
The "Whatever-the-hell-it's-called" Colour Change

Only he does it a bit better than i do.

And on Revolutionary Card Magic Jay Sankey said:

"The full name isn't the Erdnase Colour Change. Erdnase had various colour changes but the one I use is the Erdnase/Houdini colour change. That's because as I understand it Houdini added or modified a variation on it and that's the one I use..."

Direct quote taken from the DVD

Hopefully this will clarify everything I currently have tried to add to this discussion.

magic_evmeister,

Thanks for putting in the effort on this one.
As far as I can see then, we haven't stumbled over a new sleight.

The only thing I can think of is too sit down with Revolutionary Card Magic and Erdnase and see what differences there are. Then at least we'll understand what Houdini has brought to the table. I'll do this tonight.

the houdini change was in Color changes, jay noblezada, that was the first time i ever heard the ernase color change as the houdini change

On Revolutionary Card Magic Mr. Sankey refers to the fact that after Erdnase invented it and Houdini modified it he went and modified it again to a double colour change which is referred to on the DVD menu as the Double Erdnase Change, but my post above is how he introduces the sleight.

Zero000 wrote:the houdini change was in Color changes, jay noblezada, that was the first time i ever heard the ernase color change as the houdini change

I also note that in the blurb on penguin it refers to "the Classic". Could you advise if this is indeed the houdini/erdnase?

There is far too much ambiguity over the phrase 'colour change'.

And here's more cats for your pigeons:

1. The colour change commonly known as the 'Erdnase' was first published in the "Magicans' Handbook", by PT Selbit in 1901.

2. A reference made to a refinement by Vernon to Erdnase's original change is well documented


So, what really is the ORIGINAL colour change, which is basically defined as:
CHANGING A CARD DURING THE APPARENT ACT OF RUBBING IT WITH THE HAND

seige wrote:1. The colour change commonly known as the 'Erdnase' was first published in the "Magicans' Handbook", by PT Selbit in 1901.

Thank you Seige, your historical knowledge is certainly deeper than mine. Do you know what the change was called? I will assume for obvious reasons that it was not Erdnase. If it was called the classic then were on a roll. Alternatively, feel free to throw yet another name into the mix.

seige wrote:2. A reference made to a refinement by Vernon to Erdnase's original change is well documented

Agreed, known as "Erdnase Plus Vernon". This is close, if not the same as the Erdnase we all know and love. I will take a look at the material tonight and see if I can spot any differences. I am sceptical though.

seige wrote:So, what really is the ORIGINAL colour change, which is basically defined as:
CHANGING A CARD DURING THE APPARENT ACT OF RUBBING IT WITH THE HAND

Your reference predates Erdnase, so you win. So my only remaining question is: what is the etymology for the Houdini and Classic colour change names? (I am making the assumption that they refer to the move you describe above).

As magic_evmeister said Sankey does refer to the "Erdnase" as the "Houdini", and states that Houdini refined the original. So I'm happy to go with that. I know Sankey is a huge Vernon fan, so I doubt he would ignore DVs' contribution.

The only thing we're left with is the Classic Colour Change. Where did this name come from? Fingers crossed it was PT Selbit.

Not that i want to start all this up again, but it seems to me from reading the titles on 45 by Jay Sankey Erdnase minvented the change and Houdini refined it

Pitto

Not that it's relevant, but I found it interesting that there is no record of anyone ever having lived with the name erdanse. People have suspected that S.W. Erdnase was actually someone called E. S. Andrews as this is the name spelt backwards. I found that quite fasciniating.

magic_evmeister wrote:Not that it's relevant, but I found it interesting that there is no record of anyone ever having lived with the name erdanse. People have suspected that S.W. Erdnase was actually someone called E. S. Andrews as this is the name spelt backwards. I found that quite fasciniating.

Yes, but not entirely surpising. The book is primarily about cheating at cards. It would have done card sharp Mr Erdnase (who ever he may be) no good, if it had been published under his real name. On the same tack I read somewhere that E.S. Andrews has been more or less discounted as the original author, although for the life of me I can't remember where I read that.

More news on the Classic Change. I have been advised that in Brad Christians Black Deck Book (Marketing Pamphlet) there are three references to the classic colour change. These are in relation to effects which are being explained and is referred to in the following manner.

1. Use the Erdnase or Classic Color Change as explained on Ninja 1 ....
2. Use the Erdnase Classic Color Change ..
3. Same as 2.

So the position from Ellusionist is:

1. The Erdnase is not the same as the Classic Colour Change
2. Its a different name for the Classic Colour Change
3. Its a shorthand for the full name, the Erdnase Classic Colour Change

So thats the definitive answer then . In my opinion I think we can discount the whole classic color change name. Its starting to smell a bit like marketing to me.

As Pitto said, its the Erdnase, or the Houdini (refinement of the Erdnase or so says Mr Sankey).

Your choice.

I can't believe this thread is still going on. Opps, I guess I just made it longer.

Blade Master wrote:I can't believe this thread is still going on. Opps, I guess I just made it longer.

Its all your fault for abusing the erdnase. Classic change indeed.