talkmagic.co.uk

I just wrote a post, Who's afraid of the big bad: TOP CHANGE, and suddenly realised this could be a bit of a theme... 'Who's afraid of...' etc.

Anyhow, I'd just like to ask—how many of you cardies actually use the classic force as opposed to any other force?

When in 'impromtu' mode, which is your force of choice?

I've recently been using the classic force a lot more, and I am becoming almost over-confident at my accuracy. It would seem that forcing cards this way is a bit of a challenge to most, but I am finding it really rewarding.

For speed, and sure-fire results, I generally used to use the more predictable and stable cross-cut force. But this is dwindling in my estimations as a real force.

Nothing seems more pure than spreading a deck in front of someone and guiding them to pick the exact card you want them to. The spreading of face-down cards is the absolute bottom level as far as random choice goes. The spectator really does have a totally free choice, and although 'in their hands' selections seem fairer, there's something magical about a force done so spontaneously as is the case of the classic force.

However, lessons I've learned along the way and during my road to enlightenment are that one should always have an 'out' just in case the force card is missed! (i.e. carry an ID!)

Something else about the classic force which is important is psychology and continuity.
The classic force can be done from a shuffled deck and even a borrowed deck. It takes very little preparation, and during it's use the deck is of course as clean as a whistle. The psychological impact on a spectator that you have used a shuffled deck—even their own deck—to perform a miracle is nothing short of a hammer to the head.

From a continuity point of view, once the card is forced you need do nothing more. No breaks, no sleights, no false cuts etc. The work is done at that precise moment. The rest of the effect is pure, and unbroken.

There's a huge amount of satisfaction from your part. Absolute joy as the spectator takes out the exact card from the deck which you've had photocopied onto your t-shirt, for example. And as I said... imagine BORROWING a deck and performing this miracle with almost no set up at all.

Sure—there are many other ways of forcing a card. But most of them involve sleights or gaffs or glimpses or stooges etc.

I kind of broke down the barriers of fear by analysing the mechanics and statistics, and once that is done, it's actually not as hard as it seems...

e.g. there are 52 cards, you want to force 1 of them Therefore, a one-in-52 chance of doing it by pure fluke.
Now, in the case of a classic force, you can immediately discount the top 10 and bottom 10 cards of the deck, as you are not going to make them available by way of keeping them from spreading. 20 eliminated. So now we're down to a one-in-32 chance.

Next comes the speed... if you accelerate the initial spread, you can move quickly past the first 15-20 cards in a blink, even before you've fully offered the spread to the spectator. So, another 20 cards eliminated. You're now down to a one-in-12 chance.

With the force card usually near the centre, you know that there's around 26 cards in front and around 25 behind. So, if you focus on the one card you are going to force, there's really a huge chance you'll force it without much effort.

The Classic Force truly is the purest and most natural force I think you can do. And I will be hoping to use it a lot more and give as many tips as possible. Don't be afraid, EMBRACE IT!

The Classic Force needs practise.

A good idea is to always use the CF when it doesn't actually matter which card as chosen.
That way you get experience of using it, but it doesn't matter if you fail.

I pretty much always use a riffle force in impromptu situations. You can force the top or bottom card of the deck, and the technique is pretty easy to master. I recommend learning it- Sankey uses it a lot in his work, you'll be sure to find it there.

I love the classic force - i use ot more than any other force lol

one of my very favourite tricks is when i use it over and over saying pick a different card...

e.t.c

then i use loads of different forces - then back to the classic force - i ahve to say that ver the last half a year i have gotton pretty good at it.

yay me

I usually go for the riffle force in impromptu situations as it's pretty damn effective and unless you're really c*** (not the best) at it you'll never have a spectator say "That's not where I said stop!" (I should know, it's happened when I first learnt it when I had a spec decide they wanted a card from right at the bottom, B******). This is my standard usage force.

I have experimented with a couple of other forces too. One of my favourites at the moment is one I learned from a Jay Sankey video. It's his variation on what I think is called the cull force. Instead of forcing the bottom card, it forces the top card. I prefer it this way 'cause I'm much more comfortable controlling the card I want to the top than to the bottom.

As far as the classic force goes...although I haven't focused much attention on it yet, I have been given a stellar piece of advice on learning it.

Siege Wrote:

You're now down to a one-in-12 chance.

Here's a fantastic way to get the count down to one-in-three (or more like four-in-twelve). If you use the classic force as part of a four ace trick (or whatever) all you need to do is spread have your four aces at the top or bottom (whichever you prefer) and all you have to do is hit ONE of the four with your force and you're set for your four ace trick (or whatever design you're using).

I am not confident enough to try the classic force. Your rationale Siege, bringing the odds down, is sound, I just don't feel I have the experience yet to recover if it failed.

I do like the riffle force backslipping the top card and it is my favourite. I also use the Hindu shuffle force, I need more practice with this because I tend to pull off packets that are too big and I use the Overhand Shuffle force. I also use the cross cut force occasionally, I never cease to be amazed at the fact that nobody spots it!

All of my forces were learned from RRTCM.

I resolved a while ago to learn a few impromptu pick a card tricks that don't require a force, so then I have a good back-up plan should I miss a force for any reason. My favourite at the moment is "Invisible Cards" from Gerry Griffin's Complete Card Magic series.

I find the Classic Force more frightening than the Top Change in all truth. I know a few effects that use a forced card, but usually use the Riffle Force also as whenever I do try the Classic Force, I usually miss by a couple of cards.

I've also been told that attitude goes along way with the force. Act like it really doesn't matter which card they choose and it puts the spectator more at ease.

I'll have to practice this one some more now that I have a new way of looking at it.

Thanks for the new point of view
Shawn

I have bad luck with my spectators it seems as most people I try to show tricks to are the type who don't just grab out a card but rummage around in the spread for the most obscure one they can. So I never really bothered to learn a Classic Force.

I tend to like the 'obvious' type (like the cross-cut force) where you are doing something totally discrepant but it just goes without noticing. The Bottom Bluff force from Smoke and Mirrors is one of my favourites.

If I really need cleanliness in the force I like the spread cull force - almost as clean as the classic and of course, 100%.

Kati

Nothing seems more pure than spreading a deck in front of someone and guiding them to pick the exact card you want them to.

A truer word was never spoken. I have to aggree with pretty much everything Seige has said.

Personally, I have only ever come accross two forcing methods which seem plausible; The classic and riffle forces. I've recently begun to work with the slip cut force (ala Doc Eason) and have played with the cross-cut force in the past, but only in a specific context. However, for purity I will always go for one of the original two.

I think that the classic force is the cleanest way of forcing a card. It is, in my opinion, the best force in terms of "percieved innocense". However, if I absolutely, positively, no excuses, have to force a card on somebody I will always use the riffle force. It doesn't look as clean as the classic force but it gets the job done with hardly any risk of failure. For example, I will generally use the riffle force in my restaurant work, simply because of the nature of the environment. There is too much risk involved when people are "having a good time". Of course this can work to your advantage, but again, I think the risk is too great if I want to achieve the end result that I want.

The classic force is an icredible tool that every magician should develop to the stage that they can actually use it. Not only is it a brilliantly pure sleight, but it is also a lesson in 1-on-1 spectator management.

hmm the classic force. theres always a problem with spectators if they like to mess around with you and wait till you goto the bottom of the deck (or wait till you have nomore cards to fan out )

I use the classic force fairly often. I think it helps a lot to treat the picking of the card as a matter of urgency (much like the selecting of a number between 1 and 10 should be treated urgently to maximise your chances of them selecting the number you want), "Just quickly strip one of those out for me" etc...
To maximise your chances of hitting the correct card it helps to have three or four duplicates alongside each other...(obviously with a borrowed deck this is more difficult)

trulymental wrote:I use the classic force fairly often. I think it helps a lot to treat the picking of the card as a matter of urgency (much like the selecting of a number between 1 and 10 should be treated urgently to maximise your chances of them selecting the number you want), "Just quickly strip one of those out for me" etc...
To maximise your chances of hitting the correct card it helps to have three or four duplicates alongside each other...(obviously with a borrowed deck this is more difficult)

The whole idea of a classic force is to use a clean deck and perform a 'pure' force hehehehe

Hi

I do not perform that many card tricks but when do I always try and classic force as when it works your trick is done and you can concentrate on patter and revealing there choice.

If it goes wrong which it does currently about 60% of the time I ask them to sign it and just go onto a different routine that does not require a force card like Monkey in The middle or Ambitious card.

Dean

I'm petrified of the big bad classic force (well, not literally of course)
i only ever use it when forcing one cards from a range of cards in the middle of the deck. i suppose if i practised it more i could get it down from 13 cards to 1. but hey, i must be lazy in that way, and i'll just stick to usuing other forces.
there's a nice one on ...er.... it's Sankey video..... that is kind of looks a bit like a classic force but involves culling a card, from top or bottom, so it doesn't really matter which card they choose.

i once had someone wait til i got to the bottom of the deck and chose the last card. of course, he was trying to be a bit of a d##k but manages to choose one of my duplicates! that one made for a good routine