talkmagic.co.uk

Hi all. I was wondering why there is so much price variation between magic shops. I bought a shuffle mat from one supplier for £10.99 and saw it listed by another for £14.99. Both suppliers are in the UK. Another example: 13 Steps to Mentalism varies from £16 to £24, depending on the site. I realise that markets will produce some variation, but this much?

It reminds me of my old friend Murray the escapologist who had a shop in Blackpool. He was an old crook who didn't bother short changing the customers. He just wouldn't give them any and feigned age and deafness if you asked for it.

He used to make up his prices as he went along. It all depended on the look of the customer. I once saw a fellow ask him how much a prop was. He answered and the fellow left the shop. 20 minutes later an entirely different and much better dressed customer entered and asked the price for the same item. Murray nearly doubled it!

When I was alone with Murray I asked him about the discrepancy. He said "your prices have to be elastic"

He sold second hand props for twice the price of new ones. If you queried this he had a standard explanation. "It's a collector's item" he would mumble. He seemed to have rather a lot of "collector's items"

He called me a thief and he meant it as a compliment. It takes one to know one.

He was a very great man and I miss him.

Prices vary for a number of reasons. It may not just be a case of the dealer adding a higher mark-up. If a dealer places a very large order with a wholesaler or orders a large amount of one effect then they get a discount. some dealers pass the savings on to the customers.

mark lewis wrote:It reminds me of my old friend Murray the escapologist who had a shop in Blackpool. He was an old crook who didn't bother short changing the customers. He just wouldn't give them any and feigned age and deafness if you asked for it.

He used to make up his prices as he went along. It all depended on the look of the customer. I once saw a fellow ask him how much a prop was. He answered and the fellow left the shop. 20 minutes later an entirely different and much better dressed customer entered and asked the price for the same item. Murray nearly doubled it!

When I was alone with Murray I asked him about the discrepancy. He said "your prices have to be elastic"

He sold second hand props for twice the price of new ones. If you queried this he had a standard explanation. "It's a collector's item" he would mumble. He seemed to have rather a lot of "collector's items"

He called me a thief and he meant it as a compliment. It takes one to know one.

He was a very great man and I miss him.

That is wrong.

I do miss him so that can't be wrong. He WAS a great man so that can't be wrong. He WAS an old crook so that can't be wrong.

You can be a great man and still be a crook you know. I rather think poor
ace of kev has led a sheltered life. He really must learn to shed his Scottish Calvinist background if he wishes to progress.

The late Joe Riding used to tell a story about how Murray was dying in hospital and all the local magicians were waiting for news about his condition. Someone reported "there is no change from Murray" referring to his health crisis. Another magician snorted "So what's new? There has never been any change from Murray!"

I see from his profile that young ace of kev is another schoolboy who is not yet wise in the ways of the world. I must therefore forgive him in my capacity as a holy psychic reverend. One day I expect he will come to see the value of great wickedness. That is the day he will make great progress in life.

I feel that scamming people is wrong Mark. How would you like it if you walked into a shop to buy a pack of bikes and the guy told you £10?

To buy magic items I have to save my money. I would be very p***ed if somebody scammed me everytime I went to buy something.

I never said that missing him was wrong. I never said he wasn't a great man and I never said that he was not an old crook.

I find your last comment humerous:

Another magician snorted "So what's new? There has never been any change from Murray!"

But I think that swindeling people out of there money is wrong. If he did one of the biggest bank robberies on the planet, I wouldn't particuarly mind as most people would get there money back.

But thats my opinion.

I rather think poor
ace of kev has led a sheltered life. He really must learn to shed his Scottish Calvinist background if he wishes to progress.

I also think that personal attacks on this forum is not welcome. Oops, did I say think? I meant know.

That is the day he will make great progress in life.

Yip, I agree with you there. i will definately make great progress locked up.

Dearie me. Dearie me. This is a very innocent child indeed. First you shouldn't be using "bike" decks in the first place. You are a British child and should be buying Waddingtons cards if they still have them over there. "Bike" decks as you call them are poker size no doubt and look most peculiar in Her Brittanic Majesty's Realm of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

No doubt you are an enthusiastic young Scottish card magician of whom there are a great many and are under the delusion that just like other Scottish card magicians it is essential to use cards which are not of your domicile because it makes you a superior card magician in some way. You are British and naturally should use British cards. Be proud of your heritage, my boy.

As to your point that I would be horrified at someone trying to sell me these awful American cards for 10 pounds I wouldn't be daft enough to buy them in the first place at that price and therefore would then be in a position to admire the fellow for trying to cheat me. It is alright to admire a cheat providing you are not the one being cheated.

I don't think Murray robbed any banks but it would only mildly surprise me if he had. You do have me confused a trifle though. You seem to be more indignant over some mythical fellow selling a "bike" deck than you would be over a wicked bank robber who might attempt violence or at least scare the heck out of people waving a gun about. Moreover bank robberies happen all the time. I have never heard of anyone selling a bike deck for 10 pounds.

I don't know any bank robbers but I do know a chap who held up a betting shop with a gun. Just like you he was from Glasgow. You will see him working on the Barras every Sunday. Give him my regards if you can figure out who he is. If you are polite to him he will not shoot you.

You really must get out and about you know and meet people like this if you want to get on in the world. You spend far too much time in that shop on Queen St. Incidentally ask that fellow behind the counter about Murray. He will also tell you that he was a great man. I first heard about Murray from him.

As for personal attacks you are imagining things my boy. I have already informed you that in my capacity as a holy man of the cloth I have forgiven you for your impertinence.

With regard to your fear of being locked up I can assure you that it wasn't a problem for Murray so why would it be a problem for you? Did you know that he broke out of many, many jail cells? True I kid you not.

I must also inform you that just like you he also did a few card tricks. He did not use a bicycle deck.

And so endeth my sermon

Reverend Mark Lewis
Free Spiritualist Church of Canada

Crikey! I just wanted a mature discussion about market forces.

There is a cool web site called http://www.bookbrain.co.uk that searches all suppliers, lists the avialability of books, and the shippnig times and prices.

Perhaps we need such a site for magic suppliers and watch the drive to the bottom!

Uh Mark, what have you got in for ace of kev? You seem to want to attack him...

Mark wrote:This is a very innocent child indeed.

As has been said before, personal attacks are not welcome on this forum. Age has nothing to do with anything; if Kev didn't post an age on his profile would you still be attacking him?

Mark wrote:You are a British child and should be buying Waddingtons cards if they still have them over there. "Bike" decks as you call them are poker size no doubt and look most peculiar in Her Brittanic Majesty's Realm of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Uh, no. They have cheap plastic cards here aswell, should we buy them? A lot of people prefer Bikes, it doesn't matter that they're not used much here. They are poker size, yes, but why is that bad? I prefer it, it fits better in my hand. And no, most packs of cards look the same to laymen.

Mark wrote:under the delusion that just like other Scottish card magicians it is essential to use cards which are not of your domicile because it makes you a superior card magician in some way. You are British and naturally should use British cards.

What?! Personal attacks again. We use Bikes because we prefer them. It doesn't matter where they come from. Are you going to advocate only drinking British wine and visiting British websites next?

Mark wrote:As for personal attacks you are imagining things my boy. I have already informed you that in my capacity as a holy man of the cloth I have forgiven you for your impertinence.

Sorry mate, but just because you say you are a reverend so-and-so doesn't excuse you from behaving like that.

Kati

Sock it to him Kati!

Sorry but mark has been getting on my nerves for a while now.
I gotta agree with everything Kati said, mark. You've got it in for poor Kev and he's a top class bloke.

Personally, I drink coffee, listen to American rock and use Bicycle cards.
None of that makes me any less British nor less patriotic.
I love my country. But I aint gonna kiss its *rse.

I use bikes because they're cheap, come in poker size which is perfect size for my hand, are plastic coated so they work well for sleights and stuff and they look cool.
And generally speaking they're recognised as a magicians card.
People see them and ask me if I know any tricks.

You are a British child and should be buying Waddingtons cards if they still have them over there. "Bike" decks as you call them are poker size no doubt and look most peculiar in Her Brittanic Majesty's Realm of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Personally I have never heard of the Queen referred to as Her Brittanic Majesty - we call her Her Majesty. And Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom (and Great Britain) therefore calling it "Her Brittanic Majesty's Realm of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is grossly superfluous. So before you start going on about our country, could you please get a few basic facts right?

Sorry if it bothers you that I don't drink tea, listen to English musicians and use Waddingtons or whatever you call them.

But don't attack Kev, nor make assumptions on most magicians on this forum, and then try and justify because you're a "Spiritualist Reverend"

DrTodd wrote:Crikey! I just wanted a mature discussion about market forces.

There is a cool web site called http://www.bookbrain.co.uk that searches all suppliers, lists the avialability of books, and the shippnig times and prices.

Perhaps we need such a site for magic suppliers and watch the drive to the bottom!

I thought about using Kelkoo just now, so I entered "bicycle rider deck" as an experiment. It gave a long listing of everything from bike clips and film cells from Pale Rider to shower heads, but no poker cards.

Mind you, it did list a nifty card shuffler. Just add batteries... So cheap... Must fight urge... Argh! CUPS! No! Be strong!

Just imagine if there was a dedicated magic price comparison engine! Bankruptcies would soar!

Whooo, what the heck just happened there?

Personal attacks are totaly out of order and uncalled for! All Kev did was express an opinion on a story that Mark told. I would imagain that most people would feel the same about prices being unfairly changed for the way a person looked or dressed.

I am British and use Bycicle cards, they are not unusual in the UK at all, with most of the population having a TV set with some sort of digital connection to extra channels we get such programs as "World Poker."

Poker has become a huge game in the UK over the last 12 months or so, poker size cards have become the norm, on World Poker style TV shows Bycicle cards are used a lot of the time, therefore they don't look out of place.

Anyway Mark if we used a "Happy Families" pack of cards we would look like idiots, trying to force Mr Bun the baker on to a spec.

P.S cut down on the caffiene!

mark lewis wrote:I see from his profile that young ace of kev is another schoolboy who is not yet wise in the ways of the world.

Eh? That attitude doesn't make any sense. Some of the most interesting, helpful and downright impressive things have come from some of the youngest members of the board. When will we see some of your stuff for comparison? It only seems fair that if you're putting people down on grounds of age you should be given the chance to prove your thesis.

Guys before this turns into another collosal arguement between the good Reverand Mark and the rest of the world can we stop it here?

Much as I enjoy reading these, there are plenty of other examples scattered over the forum that I can refer back to should I want to put a smile on my face.

This was a debate about magic prices and if we're not careful this thread will become another slagging match (much as I like those I can always just turn on the TV and watch the Parliment channel)...

Rant, rant, rant!!

Anyway back to the subject Flashy old man! what was it again? Oh yes prices!

Gents you have to remember that different shops have different over heads, the rent for a city centre store for example is often higher than for one in the sticks, also some wily old magic shop dealers are better at negotiating with their suppliers than others. Another thing to consider is whether the trick is a top seller, if the shop sells alot of them they probably buy them in large quantities, large quantities often equals discounts, whereas if it's a specialist item then they may have it kicking around for ages before making any dollar (sorry Mark, I mean sterling) Also, and lets not forget this point,is the repayment due on the owners luxury villa in Spain...

The bottom line is shop around, with so many suppliers available at the click of a mouse to UK based Magicians, you'll often get a bargain...

(I'd also like to say though, do keep supporting your local magic shops as well or like so many other great institutions they will simply cease to exist)...