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taneous wrote:I understand where you're coming from. Except I was in the ministry when I started doing the same thing..

Blimey, I was just in my garden...

Mark Smith wrote:Blimey, I was just in my garden...

According to the old saying, you're nearer to God's heart in a garden than anywhere else on earth !

Mandrake wrote:

Mark Smith wrote:Blimey, I was just in my garden...

According to the old saying, you're nearer to God's heart in a garden than anywhere else on earth !

It is a nice garden! Ironically I was moving away from God's heart at the time!

Mark Smith wrote:Ironically I was moving away from God's heart at the time!

Maybe - maybe not..

(didn't know you had gardens in the UK - all I saw was lots of people and a bunch of houses that all looked the same..)

taneous wrote:(didn't know you had gardens in the UK - all I saw was lots of people and a bunch of houses that all looked the same..)

That's up north...

Down here in Cornwall all we have is gardens and beaches!

hmm - then maybe I should explore some more before I write it off as a destination

...there's plenty of greenery available in britain...

you cant move in london for beautiful statues, sculptures and bronze-work either...shame most people don't look-up when they're walking...

abraxus wrote: shame most people don't look-up when they're walking...

That is so very true! Walking down Oxford Street is dull, unless you look up at the tops of the buildings! There is some beautiful stonework, stuff most people just dont notice!

taneous wrote:hmm - then maybe I should explore some more before I write it off as a destination

Absolutely. Cornwall is the most beautiful place in the whole world! This is essentially the view from my bedroom window. It's called St. Michael's Mount, and its a castle on top of a hill in the middle of the sea. Its lovely!

Is that Cornwall's answer to "Le Mont St. Michael"?! Beautiful - Cornwall is beautiful place. I've been holidaying in Port Gaverne/Port Isaac since I was not-quite-born!

As for natural disasters - read the book of Job. And - it strikes me that Christians who have what I would call the correct perspective when it comes to natural disasters and God and also react with love and compassion towards the victims are not the ones who need to "stop and think."

As for all these wonderful evolutionary processes that enabled us to create morality, make ourselves feel important etc, I think this is a lovely, intellectual theory. But is this how you actually live? Every card carrying atheist I know professes this to be the case, but actually, when someone wrongs them, they do what it is built into every one of us: they appeal to a higher power. They cry off, claiming something is unfair or unjust and needs to be changed - the fact is, if there is no higher benchmark of right and wrong, truth and falsity than society, there are no such things as "human rights" - society has proved itself to be inept in so many ways, why should I listen to them about these things?
It isn't fear of hell or God that motivates me to do good and not to do bad, it's the fact that I know - even above my "human nature", which let me tell you does not have a perfect track record, as I doubt does yours - that God guides us through the bible (IMHO) for our own happiness and enjoyment of life! People are so quick to suggest that Christianity is a set of rules - that spoils everyone's fun - nothing could be further from the truth.

So, next time you feel wronged when someone steals your TV, smears your reputation or deceives you, think about whether it's just "society" that had bred you to believe these things are wrong, or whether it runs deeper.

Back to subject...

[/quote]I sat down one day and took my beliefs apart, and found they wouldn't fit together again

This is true.

No matter what belief you have, there are always things that wont fit together.
Things that we wont understand.

Things that contradict each other.

Yes. I totally agree.

BUT

Thats where FAITH comes in.

As christians we believe that all these things will be made clear when we reach "heaven" - Now that leads on to a whole new conversation.

Arnt i clever...

Back to subject...

I sat down one day and took my beliefs apart, and found they wouldn't fit together again

This is true.

No matter what belief you have, there are always things that wont fit together.
Things that we wont understand.

Things that contradict each other.

Yes. I totally agree.

BUT

Thats where FAITH comes in.

As christians we believe that all these things will be made clear when we reach "heaven" - Now that leads on to a whole new conversation.

Arnt i clever...

hmm - one needs to be careful when one says "as christians we believe".

Not when making a statement like TOm's - that's pretty standard.

But you are right that little phrase has caused many problems in the past.

Sorry i keep using phrases like that!

But what i mean is

"from most christians - thats what they (we) believe!"

There are bound to be differences in peoples idea of thier christian faith and thats fair enough.