talkmagic.co.uk

Hey all. I posted an introduction a while ago but nothing since. As a refresher, I am a psychology student who has taken to the study of mentalism as part of my academic research.

I've been reading some books on mentalism, mental magic, memory tricks, rapid calculations and things of this sort. Now I was wondering if anyone can recommend any good texts on stage hypnotism. As a student of psychology I recognize hynotism as a genuine scientific endeavor and been very impressed by the likes of mentalists such as Derren Brown who can influence thoughts and memory as well as pain management and things of that sort. I'm curious if, for the most part, stage hypnotism is similar to the types of hynotism used by psycholists and psychiatrists in their practice of if it more of an illusion or trickery. I've read that in some cases (but I'm sure by all means not all cases) stage hypnotists use stooges or audience members willing participate (for example, "when I could to 3 you'll think your a chicken," and then the participants acts like a chicken because they understand that's what they're supposed to do).

Any insight, including recommended readings would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all for your time,

=Doctor O=

I know all about stage hypnotism and in fact have put together a video course on the matter.

But then of course I know everything about anything as I have frequently claimed on this forum. I must say that you are all very priviliged to have me among you.

My most profound statement on this subject is really all you need to know.

Here it is. Hypnotism on stage or otherwise is a load of old cobblers. For those of you who do not understand this colloqualism I shall translate. It is a load of baloney. To put it more succintly it doesn't exist.

I know there are various experts and psychologists etc; who say that it does. However they do not have the privilege of being MARK LEWIS.

I do.

The standard text book on stage hypnosis is Ormond McGill's "New Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnotism", though it's advisable to attend a course or a shorter seminar to learn and practice the basics.

I read some of the reviews of this book and I probably pick it up in the near future. I appreciate the suggestion. As for workshops, I live in the midwest USA and I'm affraid very little makes its way here. I do hope to be in the Boston area by roughly this time next year persuing my education. I'm sure that time with produce more opportunities.

From the reviews I've read this book goes a great deal into the methods of hypnotism but not the theory behind it. I suppose that sort of topic would be more suited towards a hypnotherapy text.

Generally speaking, in the magical community, are there any ethical concerns with stage hypnotism. From a psychological perspective, there are some pretty serious ethical guidelines suggested for health care professionals who practice hypnotherapy including graduate degrees and a period of supervised training with an experienced professional.

Thanks for your time, I appreciate everything!

=Justin=

DoctorO wrote:Generally speaking, in the magical community, are there any ethical concerns with stage hypnotism.

I think there's a wide range of opinons, from fear of the unknown to the feeling that it's cheating. For a lot of effects, it's too easy to do it another way, and for those that can't be done without it, it's use is sometimes a bit obvious, though you could make that a virtue with some thought. There's certainly something fascinating about seeing someone snap back into trance or act on a suggestion. Onthe whole, I'd say that it's a thing apart.

mark lewis wrote:I know there are various experts and psychologists etc; who say that it does. However they do not have the privilege of being MARK LEWIS.

No, THAT is a load of baloney. Drop the act for a minute and actually ASK the scientists. If you KNEW about hypnosis and WHY it works you would realise that it in actual fact has it's roots in BIOLOGY.

As much as you may know about these matters, what would I believe? An entertainer or scientists who have done the research and have the evidence as to it's existance?

It always fascinates me people who say that there is no such thing as hypnosis? Mark, may I ask you to explain your reasoning behind your belief please? I mean, what do you see it as then?

I look forward to the reply...

Calm yourself, Cardza. These things have their season. He's just missing having a bridge to hide under. It'll soon be warm enough and he'll be happily stamping about in the mud again.

Mark Lewis...is...a troll?

DoctorO wrote:Mark Lewis...is...a troll?

He'd probably find that epithet somewhat infra dig on principle, but I can't see any reason to disagree with you.

Dearie me. Dearie me. It appears that Cardza requires education in the wicked ways of the world since it appears that he has led a sheltered life and believes everything he is told.

Just because vast tomes have been written about a certain subject full of gobblydegook and seemingly scientific terms and big words doesn't mean that the subject isn't a load of old baloney. As a professional scam artist of many years standing I can attest to this.

There are books full of learned waffle about astrology, NLP, and various daft religions or other. It doesn't mean that the learned waffle has any semblance of truth.

But to the point about scientists. It should be mentioned that there were plenty of daft scientists who went around saying that Uri Geller was real.
He wasn't and isn't. Furthermore scientists are supposed to be experts in science. This isn't science and should be studied by psychologists since scientists are simply not qualified to yap about the matter.

It is of course true that many psychologists are daft enough to believe in the "phenomena" but it is also equally true that there are plenty of equally qualified psychologists who say that it is a load of cobblers although they would use posher terminology than that.

Here are a list of psychologists who say that Hypnosis is bunk. Dr Graham Wagstaff of Liverpool University, Theodore Barber, Nicholas Spanos, Irving Kirsh, William C Coe, and Theodore R Sarbin.

Hypnotherapist Peter Blythe says in his book that it is baloney. Incidentally I met his father Henry Blythe once who was a famous staqe hypnotist and I knew I had met a fellow con man.

The amazing Kreskin has said repeatedly and often that it is a load of cobblers. And it is.

And of course most importantly MARK LEWIS says it is bunk. That surely should put an end to all argument.

However just in case it doesn't then let me direct you to a book which will explain the whole thing to you. It shouldn't need a book though. Common sense will tell you that people who fall in love with broomsticks, lose their belly buttons and suddenly acquire the ability to speak Japanese know exactly what they are doing and are not in any altered state of consciousness any more than anybody in the audience is.

Yes. Common sense. The trouble is that common sense isn't that common. I must therefore direct you to a book entitled "They call it hypnosis" by Robert A Baker which will explain the whole thing to you. He is another one of those learned university psychologists who has figured out the whole thing is bunk. However it doesn't need a learned psychologist to see that the emperor has no clothes. A perceptive 10 year old could figure it out if adults didn't interfere in his belief process.

I am the professional not the scientists. I have "hypnotised" thousands of people and know exactly what is going on. However I am far too busy and important a person to go into the matter now. Perhaps later.

As to what I believe it is I just explain it in one short sentence. "An excitement of the imagination"

Note that this sentence did not come from me but from someone equally brilliant. His name was Benjamin Franklin who was a clever chap despite being an American. He was the head of a committee of distinguished people in Paris set up to investigate this silliness which has helped me to earn great gobs of money. He and the committee decided the thing was bunk.

However lots of daft people through the last couple of hundred years or so refused to accept the obvious so it became as accepted as Astrology and just as much bunkum.

I should know since I have written many horoscopes for newspapers and can draw up a simple astrological chart. Astrology and hypnosis have earned me pots of money yet I know perfectly well that neither exist.

You really must excuse me now . I have a hypnosis show to prepare for tomorrow.

If you look at the very first line of Mark's original post ......!

Didn't mean to be undignified...just funny...then again, I'm not a comedian as is now plainly obvious.

I have to admit to knowing little about stage hypnotism...that's why I created this post, to attempt to distinguish between hypnotherapy and stage hypnotism, but as a student of psychology I do think it's important to point out that the APA (American Psychological Association) has a division of Psychological Hypnosis.

I can't argue that making someone cluck like a chicken is legit as I don't have any experience in that area, but from a theraputic perspective it seems to be fairly well established.

And, Mark Lewis, let me point you in the direction of a book: Hypnosis and Trance States: A NEW Psychobiolgical Explanation. Yes, that's right, it's new, so you probably don't know much about it.

If you read that then you will see WHY hypnosis is real. It fits in perfectly and has it's root in BIOLOGICAL PSYCHOLOGY.

Care to explain to me then how when under hypnosis people can be made to not feel pain? How hypnosis is used in surgery as opposed to other forms of anesthesia at times? Sorry, I guess those people having their legs cut off, lying there perfectly fine, calm and at ease are "just pretending".

And they're not, actually. When under hypnosis it has been PROVEN that brain activity is different. These people aren't feeling pain as the PGO scans show. Their brain activity is different, the pain has been SUPRESSED.

I'm sorry Tomo but these people really nark me. Argh!!!!!!

I will however look at the books you list as it's always interesting to read the other arguments too.

The first line of my post is indeed true. I did produce a hypnosis course. I forget where the link to it is but if a search is made no doubt all will be revealed.