talkmagic.co.uk

"Away, away with rum, by gum" and all that!

I jest of course - I've visited the Sally Army in Calcutta and they do some sterling work. When I went to India I went with a baptist charity group and though I'm not a baptist, nor do they have a problem with it, I also had to sign something saying I would drink incase it led to people getting the wrong idea.

Having said that - 6 months in India, eating top quality curry 2, even 3 times a day... without an iced kingfisher to go with it?! Total hell, my friends... luckily I went back at Easter with my Dad for a couple of weeks, touring by motorbike and drinking my fill of cold cobra with my maachli johl... good times

Nick, I was not personally offended by your post and even though I have a Christian faith I do not align myself with any religious organisation (but nor do I condemn them). But there are people on this thread and future readers of this thread who do belong to an organised religion and in my experience; I think some may find your post a little offensive within the context of this thread. It is also dangerous to generalise as there are many different types of religious organisations and not all are responsible for the things you have claimed. I could go into a huge rant and express my views on this but I fear that it will turn this thread into something it is not. So if you decided to start a thread on this particular topic feel free to PM me and I will gladly listen and reply to your thoughts no matter how aggressive they may be.

---------------- Warning: This next section has no relevance to this thread --------------------
So for now I will just leave you with a few questions and one answer to a comment you made previously. But you may have to think it through for a while, as I am sure these will confront a few of the statements you made earlier.

nickj wrote:If I were to align myself with any religion, however, it would probably be an old, Pagan style religion which reveers nature itself as the source of godliness.

The Roman Empire, in the day where Christians were fed to the lions for sport, was a Pagan Empire before it became Christian.

As I believe religion and faith are not the cause of war but it is people’s selfish interest that contradicts their faith. Here are a few questions to think about if you ever decide to start a thread on this subject:
Which one of the following wars in the twentieth or twenty-first century clearly started because of religion: World War I, World War II, Vietnam War, Korean War, Gulf War or Iraq War? If Christianity didn’t exist, is it still possible that the Crusades would still have occurred carrying a different name, banner and reason?

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Like I said before, I apologise for being a little heavy-handed and I do not hold any ill feeling towards you (I will just be looking forward to your next performance video where I will have the opportunity to criticize the hell out of your work )

Mandrake, bring drinks for everybody! And our friend Nick will be joining us!

Farlsborough wrote:"Away, away with rum, by gum" and all that!

hehe - Solid Rock sang this and 2 of them go to the same church as me!

costas wrote:

nickj wrote:If I were to align myself with any religion, however, it would probably be an old, Pagan style religion which reveers nature itself as the source of godliness.

The Roman Empire, in the day where Christians were fed to the lions for sport, was a Pagan Empire before it became Christian.

That would be a totally different religion form the one that reveered itself from nature and a source of godliness then wouldn't it?

The trouble with people who have faith in something is they will defend it till the end and if that means throwing all the teachings of that particular religion out the window and fighting for there faith then they will...

Just like you are doing now... you are trying to defend your faith by trying to twist the words of someone else to make it fit... therefore causing tension.. therefore leading to what always happens with talk like this...
And yet you still believe religion is not the cause of war?

As for worrying about upsetting others by talking about religion, the only people who get upset are those who are so small minded they can't see further than their own beliefs.

I asume, correct me if I am wrong, that you have no faith? why are the ones without faith the ones who are open minded and "can see furter than...etc." it seems to be a pretty closed attitude. Personally I don't have any Christian friends who would say having no faith is stupid but I know a lot of people whos say HAVING one IS.

That seems cosed to me...

Pitto wrote:I asume, correct me if I am wrong, that you have no faith? why are the ones without faith the ones who are open minded and "can see furter than...etc." it seems to be a pretty closed attitude. Personally I don't have any Christian friends who would say having no faith is stupid but I know a lot of people whos say HAVING one IS.

That seems cosed to me...

First let me advise you to read the last 2 paragraphs of my first post...
Then please point out where I said anything about anyone being stupid....

I rest my case....

I didnt say you were I was taking what you said and applying to my experiences - how else could I comment with any authority?

Pitto wrote:I didnt say you were I was taking what you said and applying to my experiences - how else could I comment with any authority?

Well when you have had more experiences you will discover I am correct.... nice reply though.. a perfect example of how to read something in more than one way.

This is just my opinion and I am not too good at commenting on things life this but I will give it a go...

Religion is quite a personal thing. I would not say religion effects my magic. I don’t like the idea of taro cards (don’t think this is due to religion but it might be). If someone did not want to be involved in magic due to their religion I would respect that in the same way I would respect someone who did not want to be involved in magic because they saw it as boring or pointless.

I use to know a family that ran a church based youth group and they forbid their children to read Harry Potter or take part in / read / learn / watch anything that was related to magic as they believed it wrong. The children hated going to school and not being allowed to read Harry Potter and their religion made them quite sad sometimes. I once mentioned I enjoyed learning magic and that was the end of that. We never spoke again (their choice).

If people follow a religion they do it a lot of the time without thinking as it is part of their normal day to day life so it may effect their magic without them knowing it.

Alex

Hi, Haven't posted here for a while, but I am a Christian Magician and yes it affects the way I perform.

Wukfit, your post was aggressive and out of order, this was an ordered debate, there was no call to start throwing in direct criticism and insulting language. Please do not post in this fashion again.

Macbeth wrote:Hi, Haven't posted here for a while, but I am a Christian Magician and yes it affects the way I perform.

How?... really, I would love to know how being a Christian (or any other religion) would make any difference to a performance of magic.

nickj wrote:Wukfit, your post was aggressive and out of order, this was an ordered debate, there was no call to start throwing in direct criticism and insulting language. Please do not post in this fashion again.

Where is the insulting langauge?, critisism I may be gulity of although it was not meant to be directed at anyone personally, in fact I was trying to stand up for what I saw as an attack on your very valid points.

I apologise for speaking my mind.

Wukfit,

I can see how quite easily... Some religions do not like certain aspects of magic... (some don't like magic at all) probably poor example but needle through arm could be one as it could be seen as self harm and that is a sin in some religions so a magician of that religion would not perform this trick therefore changing their performance.

Wukfit wrote:Where is the insulting langauge or critisism? please explain?

The answer's not so important really when we all go and do something else in real life between our visits here. We all love magic. It's what we do. That's a fact. Let's do that. Let's face it, all we have to do is post a stunning clip and all arguments cease. That's the real victory before the argument starts, isn't it.