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I agree, but wanted to know what other people thought.

I bought a gimmicked oil and water a couple of years ago, but then saw how to do it properly in the Mark Wilson book. I prefer this version, as it is so simple, and you can use a borrowed deck.

Last weekend, I had used this as a "do as I do" with 3 other people. Much more enjoyable and not something I could have done with the gimmicked set!

I dunno guys, gimmicks or sleights?

Personally I'd say it's the effect that matters and how much it entertains the people paying you to perform it.

Gimmicks and sleights are the tools you use to achieve these effects, sometimes you need a hand tool (slieght) and sometimes you need a powertool (gimmick), what matters (imho) is that you have the knowledge and skill to show you are a skilled craftsman and produce something worthwhile.

Good post Flash. You know what i mean though don't you?

stephenmagic wrote:You know what i mean though don't you?

I sure do mate, I just thought the point should be made...

I'd just like to say as well: one man's gimmick is another man's prop! :wink:

I'd swap Royal Road any day. It's a poor publication by todays standards in my opinion (noting that there's a whole load of topics on this subject elsewhere and I don't want to turn this into another one of them).

I really don;t know why some people dislike gimmicks so much and then pick and choose what they think is a gimmick or a prop. Gimmicks NO, prop YES. I don't see that there's much difference between the two personally and where does a TT become a prop instead of a gimmick?

What we should all be concentrating on in our magic is the performance and the delivery of our routine. How you achieve it is of little consequence in my opinion as the spec doesn't see the gimmick, the prop OR the slieght so what's the problem unless you are performing magic purely for your own gratification.

Ok, sorry all. Didn't mean to annoy anyone. I shall leave this topic

stephenmagic wrote:Ok, sorry all. Didn't mean to annoy anyone.

I didn't think you did...

Sorry, read the post wrong. This Stella is too strong

stephenmagic wrote:This Stella is too strong

Not really, you just haven't drunk enough of it yet. Keep practising - raise, sip, raise sip, prose slip, rose slop..... !

dat8962 wrote:I'd swap Royal Road any day. It's a poor publication by todays standards in my opinion (noting that there's a whole load of topics on this subject elsewhere and I don't want to turn this into another one of them).

I really don;t know why some people dislike gimmicks so much and then pick and choose what they think is a gimmick or a prop. Gimmicks NO, prop YES. I don't see that there's much difference between the two personally and where does a TT become a prop instead of a gimmick?

What we should all be concentrating on in our magic is the performance and the delivery of our routine. How you achieve it is of little consequence in my opinion as the spec doesn't see the gimmick, the prop OR the slieght so what's the problem unless you are performing magic purely for your own gratification.

KNOW UP FRONT, I'm NOT PICKING ON YOU SPECIFICALLY DAT8962, I'm JUST USING YOUR POST AS A JUMPING IN POINT...

One of the greatest blessings... gifts, actually... I've known in life is being able to study from the old books and work with the old stuff over the years. Yes, by today's standards a lot of it is primative, the books are filled with type o's and misspellings and all sorts of goblygoops and many of the older manuscripts were types on an obviously well worn typewriter then memeographed... coffee stains & call But, the information is where the treasure exist in those old tomes and for the progressive student of this craft, it is within this wonderful haystack that you will find more than one golden needle if you allow yourself to be aware of such things. The moral of the story being, don't shrug things off just because its' 30, 40, or even 100 years old... I've seen things in 18th and 19th century technical manuals for theater workers that would blow your mind; technology most of us have never even heard of let alone something we'd consider attempting. The minute you close the door on the past is the minute you will begin repeating what's been done and not find "originality" within yourself.

Now, as to that issue between "gimmicks" and "props"... well, gimmicks are generally something not seen or known of by the audience vs. the prop, which is something they see and know of e.g. tables, curtains, and set pieces are in fact "props" and then again, if your as cunning as some of the old masters, you learn how to use those items in covert ways as well, allowing them to serve the role of "gimmick" every now and then. Believe me, there's a reason why certain shows have those big monitor speakers on stage at times (and it has nothing to do with getting sound feed back).

Then we come to the last paragraph in this posting; a statement of genuine truth and genius.

The "method" behind an effect is secondary to the presentation. I can show you the same basic effect time and time again and not replicate the method by which I create the same exact results. In fact my Billet Lecture does exactly that, opening up with a series of demonstrations that involve the Center Tear and yet, the manner by which it is presented causes the witnesses of the routine to get lost and not see it for what it is. I do this on purpose so that I can gain the attention of all those educated hobbyests out there who want to tell me how to do my job

Fact of the matter is, IF YOUR PRESENTATION IS ON PAR NO ONE WILL EVER SEE YOUR DO THE TEAR AND IN MANY INSTANCES, THEY WONT RECALL WRITING ANYTHING DOWN.

As a Mentalist or "Surrealist" as I prefer to be called, the goal is to work as clean as possible using only a limited number of "normal everyday items" vs. devices that seem to exude that strange Magic shop aroma about themselves.

In that confession is good for the soul I will admit that at one point in life I was a horrid pack rat, striving to own every kind of device and piece of apparatus involved with the trade but it dawned on me one day... very few magicians ever own more than four or five major illusions in total, so why did I have to have four or five versions of the same basic effect?

Between my teacher and I we at one point in time owned the Thurston Sawing (and I do mean the real thing... complete with saw engraved to Howard Thurston), a set of double Thin Modle Cabinets, a Vertical Divided Lady Cabinet, a Comedy Crate version of the sawing, the Blackstone Buzz Saw (again, the real thing from Harry Sr's show) and even a cabinet for Sawing a Horse in Half... on top of this we had the little jigg saw version of the Spectator Sawing as well as the original Bow Saw version (what most call a Harbin Sawing) built by Percy Abbott (at the same time he made Mr. Harbins original device)... I'm not saying this to gloat or brag, but rather to reveal how rediculous it gets and how such a stock pile of JUNK can destroy your life... we're talking about one effect, we had 16 different levitations... a grand total of over 340 major illusions in all + all the smaller stuff.

The moral of the story is exceptionally simple; DON'T DO IT! you will end up working to support your stuff vs. your stuff working to support you.

It took me a long time to overcome my addiction to magic and collecting every little thing I could get my hands on (especially if it was unique or historical) and I'm sharing this here with the intent of warning you all that it's not a good habit to get into; it will prove heart breaking, frustrating, draining, and ultimately your demise (unless you have a heck of a lot of money behind you... such as Copperfield, who is now preserving a massive amount of magic history. David now has many of things my mentor and I used to own... and he don't fail to remind me of that either... )

If you want a healthy home life and a productive professional of hobby styled experience, learn early on about the pitfalls pack-rat-fever will deliver. As Vernon said years ago and as I try to stress to my students LESS REALLY IS MORE!

stephenmagic wrote:IImagine how much better it is to be able to perform in a restaurant with just one regular deck of cards, to be able to instantly add more effects to the act if needed. Someone says "let me see the dodgy cards" and you just place the deck down on the table for the World to see.

Why is there any focus on the deck at all, whether it's gaffed or not? I use a stripper deck, for instance, but I'd never pull off a direct strip or cut to a card because it would look so out of place that the spec's minds would whir away and reach the conclusion that their attention might be better placed on the cards rather than the person holding them.

Somebody wise once said to me.

"It's better to do one trick, perfect, than 10 mediochre"

If you drown yourself in "mini-tricks" you could lose yourself.

My opinion, it's all down to presentation. I guess if you can seamlessly work from one trick to the next, each more entertaining than the last, and your audience fully enjoy what you do, then it doesn't really matter what you are using.

On a personal level, less is most definitley more, but as wide a spectrum as magic is, and the thing which keeps it going is, everyone is different

I would use a TT wehich is a gimmick but I feel a bit insecure usind a fake deck as it can't be examined which takes heat off. I would use a double face card etc. though - as long as it is easy to clear up.

BUT if it were book or gimmick (or DVD for that matter) book wins everytime for me.

Gimmicks allow you to do things *not possible* with just sleight of hand. Therefore, they add another dimension to your trick/routine which should be based around sleights! Case in point: Curzon's Envelope (or, as some might know it, Special Delivery by David Regal ). This trick involves a number of sleights, yet the final effect - pulling a card with a different coloured back out of a window envelope that's been visible throughout the whole trick only to find it's the card you signed - is made possible due to the ingenious "gimmick" audience.

To echo previous posts, it's all in the handling... bitten coin being a great case in point - borrow and return the coin, and the trick is twice as strong. Gimmicks and sleights, used together in glorious harmony! The effect is what matters - i very much practice my magic for lay-people, because even if you manage to fool a magician, they will just say "ha ha, very good, very clever..." - magicians enjoy magic on a different level to specs. Hence you tend to find that people who perform regularly for other magicians bang on about sleights instead of gimmicks because they want to show they've put in the practice and have the skill - that's part of it for them. Folk who just do the odd trick for randoms will rave about the latest self-working gimmick.

Non-card gimmicks - well, half of them do stuff that just can't be done otherwise. You try biting the edge off a real coin, putting a real needle through your arm, or turning a bottle of water upside down without the water pouring out - with a sleight!