talkmagic.co.uk

Let's face it, the ID is and amazing trick (or 'utility device' if you prefer!). I take mine out with me whenever I might be asked to do any magic. It is worth carrying around that whole deck for an effect that strong, just on the off chance that I might use it.

Lately however, it has been leaving a sour taste in my mouth. It hasn't failed yet and the reactions are always great. The thing is I feel like it is a bit of a 'cop out'. After a gruelling ambitous card routine, knuckle busting coins across and countless other sleight of hand 'miracles', the spectators are suitably impressed. But they want more. I do ID. The reactions are through the roof and it was so easy. This is the one they want to see again, this is the one they will leave remembering. Sure they will remember "all that other card stuff", but they will be telling people about this for ages.

Is it too easy? Should I feel guilty about using it? Because I really do feel guilty. I feel like I am not worthy of performing it untill I have wowed them with the stuff I have spent hours practicing in my room infront of the mirror. It's like the trick deck is taking my limelight.

On the other hand, would they have been as impressed if I had just gotten it out straight away, without "breaking them it"? Maybe all that magic before hand was worth it after all. Also the spectators don't know I'm using a gimmick so I probably shouldn't feel bad about it. But the thought struck me that loads of people will just be going around with the ID doing it willy nilly. When I think about it the ID is probably my best trick. It was cheap, always works, it's totaly impossible, and it's really bloody easy!

...it's almost as if it is too good.


So what do you think peeps? Do people need to be mentally prepared for such a trick? Do I have "gimmick guilt"? Is it too easy?

I think this is really something that can only be thought of from a spectator's point of view - similar IMO to the old gimmicks/sleights argument.

The method of a trick does not matter. To a spectator the methods are all the same so they will only focus on the effect. Magic is 75% presentation anyway (and 82% of statistics...) so it's not as if any old guy could do it.

Gimmick guilt...

Kati

I feel the same about gimmicks as you do.

What I think is that if you don't feel comfortable with it, don't do it! Just my side of it. I mean, if you want to impress someone, why not do it while making yourself happy too! You make them happy and your not totally satisfied? What's the point?

However, lately, I really do want a stripper deck because I know of an amazing trick with it. I think I just might order it now lol.

Steve

As you do, I never do an ID routine first off. I always build up to it with a few routines using an ungimmicked deck that the specs can freely handle.

In my opinion you are getting confused by looking at some routines from a specs view and then looking at some routines from the magicians point of view.

If you routines that rely on slieghts it is often easy to impress yourself with a feelgood factor because you know that you've performed those slieghts well and the specs haven't seen them. However, the specs don;t see the slieghts so they see the routine from a totally different perspective. They look for the wow factor.

The ID is often the reverse of this because there are no slieghts. It's a gimmicked deck and one that packs a terrific wow factor for the specs as you've recognised. However, you appear to be feeling unhappy due to it almost being self working. I write almost because you still have to get the presentation right and with the ID, this is where the skill is.

I'd say 'don't be too harsh on yourself'. If you've got the audience sitting up, paying attention and begging for more, who cares how easy or difficult the routines are for the magician to perform?

I am the same, i introduce this late in the performance. I would never use this as an opening piece. Although i have seen many other people do this. I normally do some regular card stuff, then put the cards back into the jacket pocket while i do a prop piece. Of course when i bring the cards back out they are the ID.

This routine is used by many CPs throughout the World and famous names still use it. Do not worry that it seems easy. The best effects are very easy.

yeah absolutely, i don't know why people are against gimmicked decks, i don't use them that much but you can achieve things with them that you could never do with normal cards..

Hmm yes it was more from a personal point of view I guess.

I am going to keep it because the reactions are good, but I think I will start giving myself more credit for my presentation, so that it feels like I'm doing more of the magic. I will also give myself more credit for building them up to it.

We often talk about "outer magic", how it is perceived by our spectators, but not alot about "inner magic", how we feel about doing certain tricks and how we perceive them. Maybe it's that my spectators take me more seriously as a magician than I give myself credit for? Hmmm

Dearie me. Poor Andrew really has a lot to learn. Never fear. I perceive it as my holy duty to educate him in this rather important matter.

It is of NO CONSEQUENCE how you get your end result. It is the EFFECT THAT COUNTS. It makes no difference if you use intricate sleight of hand or a double face card. It doesn't matter if your trick relies on a mathematical principle or a sleight which require 12 fingers instead of the usual 8 and two thums. It is what comes out of the sausage machine when you finish (as Billy Mc'Comb used to say).

I am totally ruthless over methods. It makes no difference to me if I use very difficult sleight of hand which I am well capable of or a gimmicked deck. I am only concerned with the end result. A method is only a means to an end NOT the end itself.

With regard to the "inner magic" stuff you shouldn't even think about it. Just because you are technically skillful does not make you a good magician. In fact some of the worst performers I have ever seen have been introverted sleight of hand artists of great skill.

You can be proud of yourself as a magician if you are a showman. That is where the REAL skill lies. It is your presentation qualities that should be feeding your "inner" self not your sleight of hand ability.

I am extremely skilled at sleight of hand but it doesn't matter a toss to me. If I can find an easier method I will do so providing the easier method is the correct one. Just because it is easier does not mean it is better. However the reverse applies also. Just because a method is more difficult does not make it better either.

I am not saying that you should have no sleight of hand ability. In fact the more the better providing you don't get carried away with it. However it should be viewed merely as a means to an end.

If you are technically skilled you have more leeway if things go wrong and a larger choice of methods available to complete a given effect. Your work will carry an invisible badge of authority which is hard to define exactly. It is certainly a good thing to be able to handle sleight of hand cleanly and effectively.

As my old friend Murray used to say "you are not a magician unless you can do something with your hands"

However it is only a METHOD. You are after an EFFECT. The bottom line is that you should never feel guilty for using the easiest method available providing your presentation is top notch. However if you have the personality of a cold fish and your presentation of the ID (or any trick for that matter) is as dull as dishwater then you DO have something to feel guilty about.

My sermon is over.

Reverend Mark Lewis
Free Spiritualist Church of Canada.

Your question really makes me think of a different issue - I agree with what's been said on showmanship, and it being the effect that counts - my worry with the ID is that too many people are going to perform it too quickly and it's going to become mediocre - not only that but the whole R&S will be leaked!

Am I just paranoid?! I just think it's an absolutely kick-a** trick, had me totally baffled when I first saw it even though I had some knowledge about card magic - "it's a force that only involves someone thinking of a card!!! " Couldn't quite believe it and it still leaves me with a big grin when I perform it as I see people being as amazed by it as I was - and if it get's ruined by curious people with too much money and too little sense, I will be thoroughly hacked off.

[Sorry - I'm just a bit sensitive about all this at the moment- my housemate said the other night of a friend of hers, "you should talk to him, he's really into magic! He's got this piece of string in his sleeve or something..." and then proceeded to describe to me the Raven, the Svengali deck and a few other magic secrets that he'd shown her which were "so clever"... grr, I already hate the guy!]

one of my ID presentations:

write the word "grey" on a small pce of paper and put it in your left pocket. write the word "orange" on a small pce of paper and put it in your right pocket. begin with the cards in yr pocket. not visible. and ask the spectator... "do you know what MIND MANIPULATION BY WORD ASSOCIATION IS?"

most people will think for a moment before answering "yeah, kind of..."

so you give a few examples, "name a single continent so big it is in both the southern and northern hemisphere..." if they look at you blank a little add "starting with A". then ask "now name an animal that starts with E". and finally ask "quick! name a color?"

9/10 people will hv answered Africa, Elephant, and Grey. for some reason, most people who try and mess up yr routine will say "orange"... not sure why. anyway, it doesn't matter because if someone says grey or orange you show the appropriate note, and if some says an alternative color you simply say "perfect"... that is what i mean by mind control, i lead you down the path of saying "purple". that is mind control by word manipulation!

OK, now you produce your deck of cards, and as you do, start by saying "lets see if we can do something a little more challenging" and you talk about how it is SO VERY important they co-operate as they open their "ID". it is important here you ensure realisim. "look at my real deck on the table, now open the box of the ID the same way you would need to open the box of my real deck... etc... of course they drop a card and you pick it up for them, try and steal a glimpse of their cards as they arrange them etc... and so on..." keep chatting while this is going on because it creates more and more believability in the "word association theory". i sometimes even use a few words that rhyme with numbers or suits in the deck "emphasizing" them as i say them to add a little comedy plus some additional consideration from the specator i may in fact be really trying to influence their card choice.

if you own the ID you know what happens next.

finally they are astounded at the fact the "ONLY" card turned over in your real deck is the card they freely chose. then expect plenty of "but how did you know that???" which you can answer by saying... "well, i know you a little, i kind of figured you would be a "7 of diamnds" kind of girl and so it wasn't too tough... you did all the work, i just had to point you in the right direction!"

in other words, the mind control preamble gets the spectator(s) mind so totally off a gaffed deck and onto the mind manipulation issue. it's great because i find NO ONE ever asks to see the deck... it's not relavent because they are totally focused on what it was i said that influenced them to select the "7 of diamonds"...

make sure when another spectator says "ok, now try me", you leave the room to allow you to "turn over a different card in your deck" before performing the trick for them.

as has been said before, a successful ID routine requires great skill (far more they my little patter provides). but the skill required for the ID is just in a different area than "The Pass" or The "Push DL".

Wise words from you all! Thank you all.

I will definately try to curb my guilt for self working tricks. Next time I will bask in the amazement of my spectators whether sleight of hand or self worker.


The other thing I touched on was how long we will be able to get away with using the ID. It is so standard now that many many magicians use it on a regular basis. I'd be interested to know how long it has been around, and if you think it's secret will be tipped sooner or later...

Hmmmmm... one of these days, I may give in to the temptation and actually buy an ID. For now, my Brainwave will have to suffice...

Mahoney, the secret will invariably come out, because the ID is one of those "must have" buys when people start magic. Lots of kids will buy one, do it badly and tip the secret. Do we care?
Not a bit
As has been mentioned several times, the effect matters. Someone's seen it done before with the 8 of clubs for example. So you break it out, and they've seen it before. So when they choose the queen of hearts, do they care they've seen the trick before? Not really, it amazes them.
As magicians, we are here to entertain and amaze, not feel good about how well our fingers work

Yes it's easy, yes it's beautiful, and yes the "thought of" card is the holy grail...

But put on your laymans specs and see it from their point of view.
Yes, one card continually coming to the top of the deck is impressive, but they can write it off with "sleight of hand". How can they write off something as "pure" as the ID as sleight of hand? They can't. At all.
It totally baffles them.

So instead of thinking "it's too easy", think "owned!" next time you do it

Hehe

I had a short think about it and I don't think it would matter if the secret did come out. I think this trick should last for a very long time. If you have been doing card tricks with a regular deck, then no one will think you now have now switched. They would never be given the chance to think that it could be "that trick" - they would now know you're using a "real" deck.

After a few card tricks it is as if the spectator has now become accustomed to the cards. I have never been afraid of 'getting caught', as there is never really any heat on the deck, it has been 'cooled' by previous tricks. I suppose this goes for switching in any gimmicked deck.

Also the ID secret is not easy to understand or remember. Yes I think we are safe, and I will go on, to 'own' again and again!


Sorry about me answering my own questions - I'm thinking 'out loud'!

the job of thee magician is to entertain

does it really matter how he entertains?

i dont care if every one of my tricks is a gimmick or self working! long as people enjoy watching

most of these "amazing!!!" tricks you see on TV these days are all gimmicked!

people dont know there gimmicked and to be honest i doubt would give a damn if they did know.

but...

you should deffinantly learn magic without gimmicks aswell! the more skill you have when handling cards, or coins, or sponge balls etc.. the easier and more fun performing becomes even if the trick is a gimmick.

Adding to what has already been said, you will probably come to realise that only magicians seem to care if you work gimmickless. Laymen tend to think that the Svengali Deck is a great piece of sleight of hand work, that we can really read minds and can do magic with anything.

Also they usually have never seen an ACR and the majority of feedback is the best trick they have seen is the CMH.

In my life I have spent £1000's on props (and bought a magic shop), and the thing that impresses people the most is 2 elastic bands.

It really makes me believe that performance and effect are far more important than method and skill. Also performing magic for magicians is a whole lot different than performing magic for laymen. You will never win a magic competition with a svengali deck and TT. However you can win over laymen with them.