talkmagic.co.uk

3) No copyright infringements are allowed, for example, posting details of copyright routines, commercial products etc...

Just wondering, is there a ban on posting links to clips on youtube which I havent uploaded? Clips from episodes of mindfreak or magic specials and the like?

Try PMing one of the Mod becuase then you will get a definate answer

what that means is posting routines from books (i am sure it is). For example, let's say you wanted Psychokinetic Touches and i offered to post the routine. I am breaking copyright infringment by disclosing a routine. I could not buy a John Nannon book and post pages of routines on TM. But check with a MOD to make sure

So if I post a link to a youtube clip of Criss Angel performing a trick on mindfreak I wont get banned?

If its okay, I might start doing a few reviews with links to the performance clips on youtube.. see if I can make myself a bit more useful around these parts

i have posted Tommy Wonder clips before! many people have posted stuff. I am sure i am right but i hope a MOD will surface soon!

provided the vid dos'nt expose anything ie edited to show a mistake and your discussion thread equaly dos'nt expose anything regarding the trick then you should be ok.

BizKiTRoAcH wrote:Just wondering, is there a ban on posting links to clips on youtube which I havent uploaded? Clips from episodes of mindfreak or magic specials and the like?

It depends on the clips involved. We've had many links to things such as Cyril's effects and routines, sections of David Copperfield's shows and so on which are fine as they're just presentations. If the links lead to an exposure site or vid then they wouldn't be appropriate.

Personally, I don't find it an infringement to post links to PERFORMANCES. However, many of these may be from commercial DVDs or TV shows and such, and as a result, they MAY be subject to their own copyright.

However, surely as these are not hosted by TM, it is YouTube or whatever and the individuals who uploaded them who are breaking the law.

There's so many technicalities with copyrighted materials—even performance only stuff—such as, you can't lend, hire or edit the material. I guess showing a clip of Mindfreak, for example, on YouTube could be considered both sharing AND editing, as the clip is an edited selection by virtue of it not being shown as originally presented.

Complexities aside, I am sure that these clips are widely viewable and if anyone directly involved with the originals and their copyright DO get upset, they will request removal.

As such, perhaps a small amount of leeway is acceptible when posting links to materials of that nature.

Mandrake wrote:It depends on the clips involved. We've had many links to things such as Cyril's effects and routines, sections of David Copperfield's shows and so on which are fine as they're just presentations. If the links lead to an exposure site or vid then they wouldn't be appropriate.

Just to play Devil's advocate, I find that philosophy intrigueing. I was of the impression that the disdain for exposure sites and the like was due to the fact that they were depriving the creative magicians behind those effects of the money that they should have recieved from the sales of such effects. Surely allowing links to videos of another magician's performance is depriving them of money generated by ticket sales? Therefore, surely both types of links should either be allowed or both disallowed?

Ticket sales to watch a TV show?

There will always be people paying to see good performers live whether they've seen clips or shows before, infact I would have thought you would be more likely to pay to see someone who you've seen perform before as you know that you're going to get quality.

GoldFish wrote:Just to play Devil's advocate, I find that philosophy intrigueing. I was of the impression that the disdain for exposure sites and the like was due to the fact that they were depriving the creative magicians behind those effects of the money that they should have recieved from the sales of such effects. Surely allowing links to videos of another magician's performance is depriving them of money generated by ticket sales? Therefore, surely both types of links should either be allowed or both disallowed?

It's a good point and well worthy of Mr.Lucifer himself ! The 'disdain' of exposure links etc on TM is well established and reasonably easily understood but links to performances aren't so clear cut as they may or may not be subject to copyrights etc. I have no doubt that a lot of the clips we get links for are from DVDs which are copyright and therefore shouldn't be promoted. The problem is knowing for sure which ones are and which ones aren't. As seige says, the site hosting them ought to be taking action as well but in many respects that's just not going to happen.

Well I was going to post a review or 2 of Cyril's performances but the clips were from his TV specials which are NOT out on dvd and Cyril isnt actually bothered about his clips being on youtube anyway, he sent me this message when I asked him about the specials a few months back:

Cyril wrote:I'm really sorry but my TV shows are not for sale at the moment. Although I must say that a lot of my footages are floating around the net to view for free.

Hopefully someday in the near future I will be able to sell my shows to the public. When that day comes, I promise you will know about it

So surely if Cyril is telling me to go find the clips on sites like youtube then it cant be too bad

On the other hand it could be interpreted that he knows they're out there rather than actually suggesting you look for them. If they're clips from TV shows then the TV company would own the copyright and there's implicit understanding that such programmes can be recorded for later personal viewing but not for onward distribution, commercial or public broadcast etc. Difficult to give a hard and fast ruling on this sort of thing as there have been several Cyril links already!

All I'm looking for is a "No BizKiTRoAcH, we wont give you a spanking and ban you if you post links to Cyril's clips on youtube"

I'm just curious why you'd want to do it in the first place. As far as posting up reviews, I don't really see the point. It's a performance video - not something that people would purchase.

Forgive me if I'm wrong - but considering the comments here, and your comments in the past - I see this as nothing more than the makings of a "Cyril is better than Angel" kind of thing. Opinions are fine, but I just don't see the purpose of this kind of comparison.