talkmagic.co.uk

Ok. Let's just speak hypothetically for a moment here.

Let's say you are sitting there and you see an awesome efffect and say to yourself, "wow, that is a cool trick, but no version has ever let you do X, i wonder, oh hey! thats how you could do it and do x!"? (Hypnothetically X is an element to the effect never before possible that makes the trick go to a highly impossible level where even seasoned magicians would be all like "wtf".)

Would you:

A) Build a career based on said effect, even though you are moving into a pure mentalist world, and want your career to be around this... (and you know the old rule of no magic with mentalism is there for a reason.)

B) Try to market the effect yourself on your website. Make a DVD and finally utilize the studios at my school, and all that knowledge of marketing.

C) Sell it to Penguin / ellusionist / or some publishing company that will sell it for you.

D) Sit on the effect and wait until another magician figures out how to achieve this concept and then use that to measure your own ability as a magician so you can later throw it in their face only to realize that they dont believe you and think you are crazy and shouldnt call them 5 times in the middle of the night and get a restraining order and have you thrown out of prision only to read and study every mentalist book you can find till you get out and join a website like talkmagic.co.uk and post about it as if you are wondering it is what you should do, and then have everyone else tell you what an idiot you are.

Ok D is totally a joke. But really, A B C. what do you say?

Now, I think B is a good choice, if you have many friends. Bcaus you will need a big circel of customers BEFORE you go out in marketing the trick and make the money. Why need many friends? Bcaus if they like your trick, then they will tell to theirs friends, and they will tell... etc.

As for alter. C. Well if you are loonely or have friends that dont care for magic, then this should be a good options, if you really wanna sell the trick.
You will be paid a lot if its a really outstanding effect.

How about NONE OF THE ABOVE!

The magic world is so overly saturated with single effects and "eBooks" composed by individuals who have less than 3 years experience around the business, it's insane. Many of these ideas AREN'T audience tested, haven't been "screened by other pros that can help refine it, etc.

The "right way" of doing it is probably closer to (A) if anything; you work with the effect for a while and "tease" the market with it, let it build your reputation before you share it. Not only will this add to your own sense of recognition, the demand adds to the percieved value of the effect and thus, the kind of returns you can expect to see from the sell of something two or three years down the road, AFTER it's become something everyone wants.

Whoring yourself out to Penguin or Ellusionist is again, not a sound move. Firstly, everyone is trying to get in on their growth which means it will be months if not years before they'll even look at you (unless you get the right kind of introduction to them). The other thing to remember is that again, the market is overly saturated right now... wait!

One of the things that was suggested long ago in my youth, is the share things freely. Quite literally, contribute five or six pieces a year in two or three of the more noted magazines of the magic world. This kind of action protects the piece as being yours (in case some low life comes along and tries to duplicate it and sell it as their own) and again, it helps build up your own name recognition from within the industry which, if you think about it, is far more important when you're younger than building on the cash flow. Get your name out there and start getting recognition for innovative thinking, that will open the doors for you that you want opened and again, adds to the percieved value of your stuff down the road when you really do start marketing it.

You have seen me put out the question many times "Why work up hill when you don't have too?"

If you take the slow-boat approach I've suggested here, work with your ideas, share a bit here and there in the trade publications and so forth, you will become one of those guys all the kids admire and throw money at in a few years. You will have a track record and proven value and that's how it works.

Good point Criag! The only thing that keeps me from it is I don't really do that kind of magic. If I got associated with this kind of effect it would make it harder for me to do pure mentalism. Maybe not to the laymen... but... i dunno.

I did enjoy and learn from what you said though. You are quite right.

I'd do the same thing I've done with my soul, sell it to Ellusionist !
(Even tough I read many books and watch various training dvds, I'm addicted to Ellusionist's shiny effects.... don't judge me please!)

i1011i wrote:Good point Criag! The only thing that keeps me from it is I don't really do that kind of magic. If I got associated with this kind of effect it would make it harder for me to do pure mentalism. Maybe not to the laymen... but... i dunno.

I did enjoy and learn from what you said though. You are quite right.

One of the things I do when I come up with new stuff that don't fit me and my style of work is I offer it to associates who I think could do a good job with it. Though a slower path, such contributions are quite valuable when it comes to one's resume.

I've got to agree with Craig.

I've been writing magic for around 10-15 years now, and I have piles of documents and manuscripts of ideas and routines.

The first thing I ALWAYS do is to perform them in real-world situations. It's a great buzz when they go well, but it's also a buzz when they don't. Because it's MY magic!

I've released a few of my own effects via my own website, and the reactions to them are quite satisfying.

But here's a word of warning: it's not THAT easy to get them to sell. And I certainly don't make a living out of them!

I've shared umpteen of my effects on TM for free, and magician friends have also had their fair share of work and ideas. This way, not only have my own ideas become stronger through taking on board criticism, but I feel I've given the magic community something rather than selling it something. Which is a much nicer feeling, to be honest.

As Craig said, it takes a while to get yourself 'known' for ideas. And once you are a known name, you can work your own path at your own speed.

In the interim, consider taking some of your ideas and offering them around to people to take a look at. Not for commercial gain, but for interest.

Also, work your ideas in the real world. Believe me, what you THINK may be your ultimate effect could really benefit from thorough audience testing in order to refine it etc.

Many mainstream magicians don't share their effects until they feel that they've run them into the ground. They will have performed them and made their money out of them in shows etc. LONG before they unleash them on the commercial world.

Basically, I think if you're going to succeed, you need DRIVE and MOTIVATION to be a better PERFORMER a long while before you think about selling things.

And you will ultimately become a better and more respected magician if you do it this way: Learn, innovate, perform, discuss, perform, innovate, refine, sell.

The problem is, the ugly 'toyshop' which the commercial magic scene has become makes it look too easy to come up with an idea and make £££$$$ from it. Penguin, Ellusionist and a few others push 'simple and yet breathtaking' magic at the fore, and it seems that with a copy of Born to Perform and a year of thinking about magic is enough these days to become a solid performer.

Nobody is trying to take the wind from your sails, but I've been on the inside of this industry for quite a while now, and it's not something I would recommend you stake too much time or effort on until you are sure.

Metaphorically I would describe it as a betting on a horse. Sure, you can read the Tips section in the daily papers and make an educated guess that a horse at 10-1 isn't likely to come in as much as a horse at 3-2. But in reality, the guys betting on the horses who KNOW what they are doing have studied the horse, jockey, course, form and history before making their bet.

Aha, this thread has given me the impetus to do something I've been thinking about for a while, namely sticking a short clip of some of the sleights and modifications I've come up with on youtube for everyone to share and play with. Through playing around for a while I've come up with several little moves and subtleties, some of which I use in routines including a colour change that I'm proud of. The question is that I'm not sure if any of these are already published (ie. they turn out not to be my own independent creations) and thus to do what I propose would be exposure. Secondly, some of them require knowledge of other moves to be able to execute, and would be hard to show without exposing these other manoeuvres. What do y'all think?

Something I've been thnking about recently is open source magic. That is, there's a gaff that costs a rational amount of money (the hardware) and a free book of routines (the software). It doesn't matter that someone copies and distributes the "software" because it's useless without the gaff. The software would act as a shop window as to what's possible, but it'd also be impossible to make money from pirating it

Something else I've been thinking about is the number of reviews that say skill level "1-self working". I'd rather buy something containing a bunch of techniques and create my own effects from building blocks. After all, as easy to understand as they are, Lego and Meccano aren't self-working - but look at what's possible with them.