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Hey guys, I hope I'm not going against the rules of the forum, or going into to much detail here but I am having a little bit of trouble with this effect.

The first problem is three or four times out of ten people turn over the cards in their hand after the first change is made but before the top change.

The second problem involves groups and the top change. I don't have much trouble preforming the top change to a single person, I patter on and when they look me in the eye I preform the manuvor (sp?). However if I try and preform this effect to a group I almost always hear someone say "I saw how he did that" as I preform the change.

I really like this effect and I would like to improve my ability to preform it. Any tips would be appreciated.

Also, I know that Perlman shows a modified version in his born to preform dvd where the switch is acomplished using a DL instead of a top change, but I prefer the top change version and that is the one I want to get down.

Thanks,
Ian

Hey --

re 1st problem: I've never had that, are you using Oz' patter? He explains it as a memory test so if you peek it will be ruined. Also, I find that if you gently 'tell off' people who peek the first time (when it doesn't matter) then you'll have more luck the next time, when it does.

re 2nd: What's wrong with the d/l version? Because of the way the 2 card monte routine is structured you don't get much of an off-beat for the switch so a top change would be rather difficult...

Kati

No, I tend to use the three card monte patter (As in, "Have you ever seen that three card monte or find the red lady game they play in new york?") from there I tend to go on about how the hustlers are just really good at switching cards, and would you belive me if I could have switched the order already. etc.


I just think there is something that screams 'I'm doing something sneaky here!' with the DL version. Particularly because of the way that the deck needs to be held (Facing your body so the overturned card on the top will not be exposed) when placing the card that needs to be switched on the deck.

Part of the reason that I like the TC version is that if it's done well, it will not be noticed by the spectators that the card in your hand ever went near the deck. But with the DL version the card is clearly placed back down on the deck.


Perhaps part of the reason the cards are being flipped by my audience is that I simply do not have enough experience and confidence with the routine. Maybe that's something that will just improve in time for me.

OK

re 1st problem: If you want to make sure that the spectators don't ruin the trick by turning over the cards at a bad moment you need to find a good reason why. The "memory test" patter offers one justification but any one will do - if the spectator doesn't have a reason not to turn over their hand then why shouldn't they?

re 2nd problem: You'll need to find a way to create a strong off-beat for the top change - doing something like that in a group is especially hard because you can't just wait until the victim isn't looking, you have actively to misdirect them. Try a joke at the right time or something?

Kati

katrielalex wrote:re 1st problem: If you want to make sure that the spectators don't ruin the trick by turning over the cards at a bad moment you need to find a good reason why. The "memory test" patter offers one justification but any one will do - if the spectator doesn't have a reason not to turn over their hand then why shouldn't they?

I generally say, 'So now, without looking, which card are you holding, the queen of hearts or the queen of diamonds?' to which they generally answer, 'Hearts' and then flip it over anyway =P It could just be my choice of audience, drunk Irish people have never been great at following instructions at the best of times =P

katrielalex wrote:re 2nd problem: You'll need to find a way to create a strong off-beat for the top change - doing something like that in a group is especially hard because you can't just wait until the victim isn't looking, you have actively to misdirect them. Try a joke at the right time or something?

Maybe that might work. I just find that people get too focused on what I am doing while I'm talking to them.

oeb wrote:... I tend to go on about how the hustlers are just really good at switching cards, and would you belive me if I could have switched the order already. etc...

This may be your problem.
You're already telling them what to look for.

You need to give them something different to think about.
Like "which card is on top?" etc

If I do this I usually set it up as a bit of a challenge - ie. this is a trick and it's about how fast I can switch it. You might catch me out. That way if they do catch me out - it's a bit of fun. Now some of you will crucify me for that - but if I do card tricks then I really play them down as just a trick - implying that the other stuff I do isn't. Some times in a restaurant setting I need to do something light - and this is where this kind of thing comes in.

What you could try is when you give them the first card - tell them to turn it over to make sure you haven't switched it or something. Tell them to turn it back and then say something like 'right - now you mustn't turn it over again or you'll mess up the trick'.
This gives them the oppurtunity to turn it over and get it out of their system - at the same time letting them know if you mess up it's their fault. I then show then the next card (I use the cards from the bottom - using the technique that suits that) I emphasise that it's a red Ace and they have a bklack Ace and they must remember that. I then show them what I'm going to do - and then get everyone watching the csard in his hand. I emphasise again that they must remember that they now have the red card - and while I'm doing that I do the top change - it's a natural off beat.
When I do the move in their hands I then ask them again - 'what card is on top now'? Whatever they say I ask them if they'll be impressed if the other is on top. I try and play this so that it looks like we've all forgotten what card is where and the whole trick is a bit messed up. It helps to pack a punch when they turn it over and both cards have changed.

Hope that doesn't expose too much

saxmad wrote:You need to give them something different to think about.
Like "which card is on top?" etc

Ohh that is brought into it too. If I am allowd I can post a full account of my patter, I don't know if I will be allowd though. Will it count as exposure? (I wont detail the slights, just refer to them by name where they are used)

I think patter is fine.
Doesn't count as exposure!