talkmagic.co.uk

ok, something i've been discussing over the weekend and i was hoping to pick other peoples brains about it. I'm about to rant about "extreme" card manipulation. what is it that makes it so "extreme"? certain in comparison to what i can imagine is now refered to as "standard" or "classic" card manipulation? IMHO the word "extreme" implies a much higher level of skill. now is it just me or is a sybill cut an awful lot easier to do than split fan productions? the videos we get on youtube would tend to agree with me on this, you get loads of people posting their XCM videos but how many people do we see doing split fans or cardini single productions?

This week I'm going to cast out the ShowOff DVDs and break out the Art Of Card Manipulation! who's with me?

don't get me wrong, i've nothing against XCM, I'm forever doing 9 packet cuts and backflips and whatnot. i just don't get why it's so "extreme"

[/rant]

It sounds like it might be subject to a certain amount of hyperbole.

on second thoughts, it could just be the same kind of reasoning that means youngsters these days (don't i sound old?) listen to Justin Timberlake rather than Frank Sinatra. it's not that one is better than the other (and indeed doesn;t neccessarily involve more skill) it's just more popular at the time.

LOL. Lawrence, this is my very first post on the forum but I know very well those XCM videos. First of all, XCM is an indepent art which is not related to magic, there might be maybe one or two magic effects but the main thing is to create beauty with cards without magic.
A split fan production is harder than a flipback but the split fan production is magic and audience doesn´t appreciate the magicians skill (as many magical moves). On XCM the main focus is to create a HUGE impact with card sleights and I can asure you there are things MUCH MORE dificult than a split fan or a sybil, for example the cobra cut, the SSS, the perching concept, the foot shuffle and the 360 degres catch turnover armspread (believe there are more). And also, on XCM you will see much more variety, creativity and smoothness than sybils and two handed cuts.
I hope this help for the "question".
So these were the reason, those videos on yotube are called extreme and XCM

Peace, and sorry for my bad english, I´m from Argentina so I hope this post doesn´t offend anyone
PD: a succesful giant presure fan is much harder than a slip fan lol

XCM is an indepent art which is not related to magic

ive been saying that for ages and noone listens to me

Mefistofeles wrote:XCM is an indepent art which is not related to magic

Well put Mefistofeles, I have never heard anyone else say that on this site (only kidding the_mog) .

To comment on the original post, the extreme is just marketing. It is card manipulation/flourishes with a soundtrack. Extreme is the current marketing buzzword that appeals to the younger audience who have more disposible income and are a prime target for many markets. On the other hand, the cuts are impressive and I enjoy them. Like many here I was doing the Sybil cuts long before the term Extreme Card Manipulation was coined.

Sorry Mog - did you say something?

The hardest classic maipulation move I know would be to do a split fan production in both hands which is a lot easier than doing in both hands a king cobra cut.

I´m totally agree with you Peacock. The king cobra cut is the hardest one hand cut on earth and just a few can do it on one hand. Imagine if you try to do some combos like a cross king cobras switching packets in air. It´s difficult to write it lol.
That is XTREME

Lawrence wrote:now is it just me or is a sybill cut an awful lot easier to do than split fan productions?

Lawrence wrote:i just don't get why it's so "extreme"[/rant]

The abbreviation is "XCM", which stands for EXtreme Card Manipulation, this little terminology was made by De'vo. (Similar abbreviations for his work have been made my him, such as XB and CTG)

You say that a "Sybil" cut is an awful lot easier than a "Split Fan" Production, firstly they are two completely different moves, each ranging from their own difficulties.

Secondly, you say "Why is a Sybil cut classed as XCM?, when its hardly extreme", well its not.
I believe Sybil's are part of Card Flourishing, The original Sybil was created by Chris Kenner, and since then many variations have been made by; Him, Brian Tudor, Dan and Dave Buck, and budding card flourishers. Its not XCM

Thirdly De'vo rarely uses Sybil cuts in the way that they are done by Card Flourishers, but to form a Display, which he calls an "Impossible Stack".

I also believe that you are not giving perfection or practice a say in this, with a little amount of practice anyone can do a Sybil, its a simple cut that can lead into a lot of different cuts. The hard part or the part that makes it look any good is practice and dedication, I know guys like myself who have been working on a Sybil for years until they get it smooth, fast and consistent. And that dedication is what makes it what it is.

For the record, XCM is De'vo's terminology for his form of Card Flourishing, XCM is alot different to Card Flourishing.

Tom, I couldn´t explain it any better than you. Looks like you have a nice understanding about XCM.
But I would like to add something else, flourishes are a fancy way to handle the cards to enhance the magic or to impress.
On the other hand, XCM has nothing to do with magic and that is very well explained by De´vo (example, on XB).
XCM is an indepent art with is based on xtreme card handling and there are other things unique to this art: great variety, creativity, wicked new concepts and its target is to create a great visual impact.

Sorry if my english is not good
Lol, that should be my signature

Mefistofeles wrote:But I would like to add something else, flourishes are a fancy way to handle the cards to enhance the magic or to impress.
On the other hand, XCM has nothing to do with magic and that is very well explained by De´vo (example, on XB).
XCM is an indepent art with is based on xtreme card handling and there are other things unique to this art: great variety, creativity, wicked new concepts and its target is to create a great visual impact.

Nice Mefistofeles, I kinda had this in my head, but couldn't put it into words and detail like you have done.

Although your points towards XCM (Variety, Creativity, New Concepts, Visual impact etc.), also apply to Card Flourishing.
Card Flourish is designed to be visual, creative, new and fresh. All that i can think of that difers it from XCM is this kind of example.

Imagine it like this, Card Flourish is the cool guy, leaning against the wall doing flourishing, just like in a nonchelant action and something to kill time.

Whilst on the other hand, XCM is the guy who is all dressed up and presented, performing in a stage setting, doing it all seriously. Usually to some kind of music.

Imagine it like this, Card Flourish is the cool guy, leaning against the wall doing flourishing, just like in a nonchelant action and something to kill time.

Whilst on the other hand, XCM is the guy who is all dressed up and presented, performing in a stage setting, doing it all seriously. Usually to some kind of music.

lol I agree with you lol
Thanks

I think everyone so far has missed the boat with their explenations. Extreme Card Manipulation is reffered to as such for one reason and one reason only; branding.

Branding is a marketing concept whereby you try to establish a well known name for your product while maintaining complete control over who can brand their products with your name. The idea in this case is that they want to get everyone to start calling that style of manipulation XCM. Since the owners of the trademark have control over who can use that term on their dvd's, books, etc. They, in effect have control over what gets called XCM and what doesn't.

Xtreme Card Manipulation was a registered trademark of David R. Beyer (better known as De'vo Vom Schattenreich), although he let it lapse. The marketing strategy was to get people to call that style of flourishing Xtreme Card Manipulation so that anyone wishing to release a dvd on the subject has to pay him for the right to call it XCM or they can't call it XCM.

Go to uspto.gov (the United States Patent and Trademark Office web site), then click on trademarks, followed by Search Trademarks, then New User Form Search. In the search field type "david beyer" (without the quotes) and change the search field drop down to Owner Name and Address. Then click search and you'll get a listing of David Beyer's registered trademarks. They include:

Handlordz
Superhandz
Xtreme Card Manipulation
Cobra Cut
and the name De'vo Vom Schattenreich

That's the meaning of XCM. There's nothing else to the name, it's just a marketing ploy.

Ok, nice find. I don´t want to offend but I know there is people that hates De´vo and I´m NOT one of them.
XCM might be a lot of marketing but I REALLY DON´T KNOW and I cannot affirm what I´m not sure.
I mean, what you´ve found might be real or might be false because as I said before, he has a lot of haterz.
De´vo´s DVDs material cannot be found anywhere else so if XCM is just marketing then I guess I agree with what he does. And also De´vo doesn´t sell DVDs only, he also gives away a lot of information for free on his websites. I know, some of you may say "hey Mefistofeles, that´s part of the marketing" ok, ok but I have no problem with what he does.
I agree with his marketing and I like his products.

Peace