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I would not dismiss hypnotism so quickly...when it is done properly, it is powerful and impressive. I was one of the fortunate few to take part in a number of hypnosis experiments in the 1980s with Martin Orn from the University of Pennsylvania. We did age regression (the real thing not drawing like a five year old), memory tests and basic demonstrations. It was a six-month protocol that ultimately examined the possible effects of hypnosis on memory. The results were really impressive and I have since been able to induce trances in people in private settings to great effect.

I must inform Cardza that I STILL think hypnotism is a load of baloney. However it is rather deep baloney and I do not think the "born to perform" type of thing advocated by the young man from Essex is the correct way to go about studying it.

If you are going to study baloney at least do it properly. As an expert in baloney I am the way, the truth and the light in these matters. I have been telling lies for a living all my life so naturally I know about this type of thing.

I of course have heard of Martin Orne that Dr Todd refers to. A most eminent psychologist who is mentioned at some length in the Robert Baker sceptical book.

No doubt the good doctor would find it a good read since he has actually met the man.

Incidentally the approach mentioned of actually paying someone to stooge for you is suitably horrifying to me and I would say that very, very few stage hypnotists resort to this.

One of the reasons not to do this is that the stooge is liable to blab just as he seems to have done to the above poster.

"No. He should be studying from the oldest method of all. Books. He will learn far more this way. "

From my point of view, to learn the fastest and most effectively a combination of books, DVDs, videos and first hand teaching (if at all possible) is the way too learn. Far more can be learnt from highly recommended books (such as the RRTCM) as opposed to one DVD. However, having an effect explained, being PHYSICALLY shown how to do an effect and finally watching the effect in full swing with a live audience and the patter used, also gives advantages that one book could never demonstrate. If, however, you can't use DVD's, CD's etc because they are simply too 'newfangled' for you, your kind of stuck and shall simply have to revert to whatever teaching method was used in the time period you were teleported from. But hey each to their own, hehe.

As for 'Oz Pearlman', he is a rather renowned close up magician that has become quite famous for his teaching methods. Look into his DVD if you ever get the time, really helped me smooth over some of my basic card slights which I thought I had nailed at the time - guess there’s always room for improvement.

"Hypnosis is a trifle deeper than that and is not something you learn in 20 minutes." Obviously I realise this Mark, and anyone would be naive to think any half decent magic effect can be mastered within 20minutes, however I simply wanted some information on the groundings of hypnosis. Many magicians will not learn 'The Muscle Pass' in their time of studying this art as it can take up to 3 years of regular practice. Nothing can be learnt with the click of a finger, but I wondered how long it might take to get some basics that could astound people. For example, could I put someone in a trance after the first month of study?

As ive mentioned, im looking for something along these lines to incorporate into my close up routine, so the thought of having to purchase books, dvds and classes with nothing to show after a year would most certainly put me off.

Thanks for all of your comments - any more would be most welcome,

Alex
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it seems that there's no quick route to it, i would of thought a years worth of study worth it personally...

if thats not for you - i would say buy Trance This! by Kenton Knepper, though it covers some real inductions, theres also plenty of effects and ideas that you can use to look as if you have put someone in a trance...

i would worry for you if ever you took up the guitar, you wouldnt be Hendrix within 12 months...or indeed 12 lifetimes...

"i would worry for you if ever you took up the guitar, you wouldnt be Hendrix within 12 months...or indeed 12 lifetimes..."


I do play the guitar and its me Hendrix would wanna be

If you want to learn about it, learn about it properly. It's really not something you want to be taking shortcuts with.

well then, you didnt learn to play it completely within a year did you...(i should know, been playing it for twenty years)...

but i bet you get more out of it the more you learn it...

Trance This is by no means easy, it takes alot of audacity and belief to do it...

no shortcuts...its a proper skill however it may work, invest the time whilst you're young..dont rush...

The ideas and theory of Hypnosis can be obtained from books, cds and dvds. But there is NO better way to learn hypnosis than with actual people. Infact, you can have all the knowledge in the world and it won't do you much without practical experience. THAT is why a course or a class with a in-person instructor will always be the best route for hypnosis.

But, unless you are planning on being a clincal hypnotherapist or doing any kind of change work, it is probably a bit over kill.

One of the best sources for information on hypnosis I have ever read is, "Trance-formations" by Bandler, Grinder. It is a bit tough to find these days.

I see that the 18 year old from Essex has become 19 since we last spoke. However I also see that his increased age has not yet tempered his impertinence. I suppose we shall all have to wait another 30 years or so before that happens. In the meantime happy birthday.

I must inform him that I now do recall seeing this Pearlman fellow do a rather bad demonstration of the svengali deck on a video somewhere. No doubt the chap will improve with experience.

This is my chief objection to this form of learning. When you read a book you cannot see how bad the author is. When you see a video you realise that the fellow teaching you is bloody awful himself and it is somewhat offputting. It is the blind leading the blind.

Furthermore you may pick up the performer's bad habits under the delusion that is the way to go. Books help you to think for yourself. Videos encourage you to ape the teacher.

I do not approve of the younger generation and the way they study. They all want videos and neglect books. They want to learn how to do magic NOW! The fast way is not necessarily the best way. You cannot get a proper foundation of your art if you do not read.

And as for the daft notion that you can observe "the patter used" that is not the way to go. You need your own patter not someone elses. And just because you see the effect worked before an audience does not mean it is a good thing. This is because as previously mentioned you may be tempted to do it in the same way which is usually bloody awful.

Still if the young man insists on videos and DVDs then that is precisely the method I use to teach in my course although at present I am writing an actual book on stage hypnosis.

It is NOT something to use "in a close up routine" Hypnosis is for therapy purposes or stage entertainment. It is not for close up magic entertainment.

I am sure most audiences can be put to sleep anyway without that sort of thing.

Excellent analogy ‘Abraxus’. After my first year of playing (well just over) I had my first pub gig in a local Ember Inns “The Optimist”. I used to work behind the bar there (straying from the point a little here), which helped me get the booking. Teamed up with a friend who had a good voice and band experience. I played some really simple stuff – basic chords and blues improv on the solos, but we sounded damn good! And that’s the point I was trying to make. I still can’t crack out any outlandish solos that we’ve heard and loved by Santana, Guns N’ Roses, Hendrix etc – like I can’t pull some of the UNBELIEVABLE card sleights that Lennart Green has done in the past. But I can still wow a crowd with a simple ambitious card routine. That’s really my point, and I wondered if the same applied to hypnotism…


“If you want to learn about it, learn about it properly. It's really not something you want to be taking shortcuts with.”

…but the general consensus is that it would not be worth looking into as something to incorporate into a close up routine.

“But, unless you are planning on being a clincal hypnotherapist or doing any kind of change work, it is probably a bit over kill.”

Just out of interest, do you think that many/most performing hypnotists would be in the trade of clinical hypnotism, or any other kind of hypnotism other then simply for entertainment purposes?

You guys seem to know a little more than me – can you tell me how long it took you to successfully put someone into a trance? And what exactly are the real dangers (if any exist) - can you mentally hurt a person??

Thanks again all,

Alex

The same day I read "Trance-Formations" I was successfully trancing people. But I didn't "get it" then. There is a good deal to this art of hypnotism. There is a great amount of BS clouding it as well.

Stage Hypnosis and Clinical Hypnosis are 2 different things. Sometimes they are used/spoken about interchangably but they are very different. Stage Hypnosis is often faux hypnosis, more basic suggestion and role play. (depending on the show.)

You can do "hypnotic" tricks and "experiments" that look like full blown hypnosis, but really aren't. Kenton has a great book on this "Trance This!". Also, to stray a bit further away from that there is also "Act of Imagination". Both books I have reviewed in the reviews section. Also, "The Ring" (which comes with "Trance This") is a fairly simple yet powerful routine if done right.

If you want to go out there and add a bit of mystery to your close up work and do some faux hypnosis, that is in art in itself. It is a shorter path of learning and has its ups and downs.

If you want to learn "real" hypnosis, how to produce deep trance phenomina... make people eat apples, forget their name, postive/negative hallucinations, think they are a chicken, painlessly stick needles in their arms, ect... don't take any shortcuts. Find a teacher, and learn from them.

Just becareful. There are many people out there wanting to sell you their BS hypnotism course. Make sure you do your homework. I have been burnt by these types, as well as my friends.

Feel free to PM me with any questions you have. Ill try and help you find the right direction. Or post them here for everyone to see.

There are many dangers for those who do not know what they are doing. Every word carries a suggestion - it can takes years to know that what you are saying won't have a negative effect. Playing around with peoples subconscious? Effectively programming them? I'm sure the dangers are obvious when you look at it like this.

If you are careless and don't learn thoroughly first you put your subject at risk and open yourself up to any number of lawsuits.

The impertinent remarks from the fellow with the numbered name concerning "BS hypnotism course" have not gone unnoticed. I know perfectly well he is referring to me. No doubt he is still smarting from my recent reprimand so in the immortal words of Mandy Rice Davies "he would say that, wouldn't he?"

I am at present writing a book on the subject and might post an extract or two which would explain my philosophy on the matter which is basically that the whole thing is baloney but the trick is to find people who believe that it is not baloney and get them to delude themselves that something is actually happening to them. There are lots of daft people in the world so this shouldn't be too difficult.

So the subjects aren't exactly faking it. Or at least not all of them. The best subjects will be the ones who are daft enough to believe that you have hypnotised them. They will be trapped by their own belief sytems and will con themselves that they have been hypnotised. Accordingly they will act like they believe hypnotised people are supposed to act. This of course will be a great advantage to you.

See? Easy once you know the secret.

Mark I am very tempted to send you a copy of this book I keep mentioning... I think you would find it an interesting read.

mark lewis wrote:The impertinent remarks from the fellow with the numbered name concerning "BS hypnotism course" have not gone unnoticed. I know perfectly well he is referring to me. No doubt he is still smarting from my recent reprimand so in the immortal words of Mandy Rice Davies "he would say that, wouldn't he?"

I am at present writing a book on the subject and might post an extract or two which would explain my philosophy on the matter which is basically that the whole thing is baloney but the trick is to find people who believe that it is not baloney and get them to delude themselves that something is actually happening to them. There are lots of daft people in the world so this shouldn't be too difficult.

So the subjects aren't exactly faking it. Or at least not all of them. The best subjects will be the ones who are daft enough to believe that you have hypnotised them. They will be trapped by their own belief sytems and will con themselves that they have been hypnotised. Accordingly they will act like they believe hypnotised people are supposed to act. This of course will be a great advantage to you.

See? Easy once you know the secret.

Mark,

I actually was not referring you. It was a general comment and I have no knowledge of your course. I actually meant those types that claim they can teach hypnotherapy in 24 hours. You know the type, that go for 99p on ebay.

I have seen many people hypnotised without previous discussion of trance. I have seen instand and rapid inductions work on many people. Some of these people were complete skeptics. I do agree with you to a degree... but not quite enough to call it fake. There are phenomina I have seen that have little other explaination. Such as people reducing and stopping bleeding under trance.

Anyway. Sorry for the miss communication.