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Yea sorry to bring this up and but some guy I know told me that he could cause force bolts and levitate he said it was actually real and one day he heard a demonic voice that asked him if he wanted to trade his soul for supreme demonic-magical power.....yea sorry to bring this up..im not talking about card tricks and what not im talking about real "magic" that actually happened... please dont bother responding if you haven't experienced any of this....anyways sorry for making this topic i cudnt stop sleeping about this...

I would suggest your friend and you both seek professional help.

I think you might need to fly to a help centre or something. They have medicines that help get rid of unwanted voices and stuff.

I think your friend is a liar. Otherwise I hope he did not take the demonic powers...

CONFUSED LUCAS * READ THIS BEFORE YOU RUN OFF!

yea sorry to bring this up..im not talking about card tricks and what not im talking about real "magic" that actually happened... please dont bother responding if you haven't experienced any of this....anyways sorry for making this topic i cudnt stop sleeping about this...

Unlike my cohorts above, I do have actual experience in the occult and metaphysical work and I'm quite aware of its realities. What you describe isn't such, it's a bit of ego-tripping on the part of your friend but it's the kind of ego trip that could prove dangerous -- delusional. It could just be a case of yanking your chain, but given how circumstances are in our world today it's hard to say.

Yea sorry to bring this up and but some guy I know told me that he could cause force bolts and levitate he said it was actually real and one day he heard a demonic voice that asked him if he wanted to trade his soul for supreme demonic-magical power.....

How old is this friend? What kind of "mold" does he fit into psychologically?

From the outside looking in I'd have to say he's the classic teen that feels he don't fit in and must do things like this for the sake of attention. He's probably dealing with tons of abuse issues as well, both at home and in daily life. This all results as a handful of simple psychological maladies that if left unchecked, can turn into a major set of problems in life, including drug & alcohol dependency (if he's not already at that stage... over 16 years of age he probably is).

My advice to you is to simply talk to him and explain to him that many of the things he talks about have been explained and most Occult Magick is really an aspect of modern science. Feel free to explain to him that many, myself included, get involved with stage magic so that they can understand things like what he's described to you as well as their own peculiar abilities. I for an example, have an unusually high sense of intuitive connection, what some folks might call being "empathic"... it scared me as well as my family until I began learning more and more about such things from the theatrical and scientific side of the fence.

Don't call him a liar, but gently nudge him into getting involve in your hobby with you, so that he can discover a different route to go with his fantasies and find a much more positive outlet when it comes to self-expression. In other words, what your chum is looking for is a place to fit into and someone that will accept him for being a bit wierd. Show him a couple of Criss Angel tapes and maybe Jeff McBride and you'll see him wake up slowly. Especially as you explain to him that everything they do is a magic trick.

Best of luck

confused_lucas wrote:Yea sorry to bring this up and but some guy I know told me that he could cause force bolts and levitate he said it was actually real and one day he heard a demonic voice that asked him if he wanted to trade his soul for supreme demonic-magical power.....yea sorry to bring this up..im not talking about card tricks and what not im talking about real "magic" that actually happened... please dont bother responding if you haven't experienced any of this....anyways sorry for making this topic i cudnt stop sleeping about this...

Sleep soundly sunshine. Your friend is either unwell or lying. I'm going for option B.

yeah sorry to burst your bubble mate but this kind of stuff does not exist and has he proved it to you.If he has its probally a scientific explanation or if he hasnt he probally is just saying it to try and fit in. If it is that hes trying to fit in dont make fun try to find out what is causing him to say something like this.

lindz wrote:yeah sorry to burst your bubble mate but this kind of stuff does not exist and has he proved it to you.If he has its probally a scientific explanation or if he hasnt he probally is just saying it to try and fit in. If it is that hes trying to fit in dont make fun try to find out what is causing him to say something like this.

That's wrong!

You are stating a something as fact that has not been proven as such. Worse you are attacking an individual that is both, confused and a bit afraid due to the religious influences in his life and level of maturity.

Magicians are quick to attack someone that mentions this kind of thing but rarely lend pause of consideration as to how much harm their words and the attitude in which those words are delivered, can generate. You want to be "cool" so you've become an atheist but in so doing you've forgotten a good bit about humanitarianism and treating people in the manner you want them to treat you.

It is merely your opinion based on what you've been told via other magic books and whatever studies they may have pointed you to, that all this stuff is fake. It is not fact, it is something that has yet been fully proven or disproven... that is the fact.

I think that several apologies are due this young man in that all of you pounced on him and made a bad and confusing situation in him mind even worse, just so you could feel superior about something you know little to nothing about.

I must agree with Craig here, don't dismiss things like this. Listen to him he KNOWS what he is talking about

Ok craig i take your point it is my opinion which i should have stated earlier but i believe if something like this is real it would have been proven by now. However i dont believe i am attacking anyone so could you please point that out for me i have merely stated for him to stand by his friend if in fact his friend is feeling left out or has something like schizoprenia(this comes from the voice talking to him, I know my stuff on this has i suffer from ocd).Also i never read this out of a magic book that it is unreal. I dont think you should attack me saying i know nothing about this. The reason for this is this is how i got into magic in the first place. I have been in many groups of the occult and read many books on it and seen a lot of things of the occult first hand. I know you are very experianced on this subject as well from some of your previous posts so i have high regards for your opinions as well. I just think you are judging me as you say i was judging someone else by saying i dont know nothing about this. I hope we can agree to disagree on this situation as there are no real answers on this subject and as i said i do take high regards of your opinions so i hope we can move on and give each other helpful opinions in the future.

yeah sorry to burst your bubble mate but this kind of stuff does not exist and has he proved it to you.

Id' have to say that the tone and attitude in which that opening line is set is both, rude and insulting -- an attack! You are stating as fact that such things "don't exist" which, as you've clarified and agreed, is but your opinion based on what you've be trained to believe over the course of your studies in magic.

If he has its probally a scientific explanation or if he hasnt he probally is just saying it to try and fit in.

This line is pure gibberish in that it makes no sense... I've read and re-read it several times. I think I know what you're trying to say here, but it don't come across too readily.

If it is that hes trying to fit in dont make fun try to find out what is causing him to say something like this

Here I can see you reconciling the issue but it's too late, the damage or "afront" was done in your opening statement.

Don't feel that I'm picking on you with this, I blasted Penn Gellette and a handful of others over this kind of claim and projected attitude a few months ago in my column at VISIONS. The amount of praise and thank you notes I've seen from across the industry; believers, skeptics, those who aren't sure.. has been amazing... the strongest response I've ever seen in the five years I've been writing for that magazine. In other words, there's a very large faction in magic that's tired of this type of bully approach to things.

I don't think that was your intent, but it is how it came across. That's the kind of thing we need to be more aware of in that this "trend" we've seen in magic the past 15 years but most especially the past 8 years, in which belief in anything is shunned and slandered... well, it needs to end. It is causing some serious damage to the craft on the whole and within the industry. Just because someone comes into this craft does not mean they must become an atheist and stop believing in the miraculous... in my book that's a very sad state of affairs and far from what the ideas of magic and being a magician stand for.

I used to be sceptical but I too have since taken on the attitude of "I don't know" - nobody knows and as Craig said, just because that is the case doesn't automatically rule it out as a possibility.

In fact, when it comes to science I take a Hume-ian look at things - nobody can ever fully understand anything; so why should things like this be any different?

Well what I have learned, as a christian, is that there is demons that misleads people today. Like for example, they make voices, opens/closes doors etc... If anyone is interested u can check this scripture in the bible: Relevation Chapter 16 verse 14.

If it is that hes trying to fit in dont make fun try to find out what is causing him to say something like this

Firstly i said this in my opening post so no i was not trying to reconcile any damage. Secondly i didnt say i dont beleive in everything of the unknown just certain things. Thirdly like i said in my previous post i stopped believing certain aspects of the unknown before i got into magic or knew anything about it. Yes i can see how it looked as an attack now but i was so oblivious to it as i did not have any intent as to making it an attack. So therefore i should have rephrased it to something that sounded a little considerate. Personally on the whole i do have an open mind on certain things and other things i personally dont believe but you can say this with every single subject in life. i.e Some people belive in religon some people dont, some people think football is there life and they cant miss a game where others think it is just a sport etc etc. As i said this is my personal opinion (which i should have have stated origanly and not have said it as it was a proven fact). I believe everyone is entitled to there opinion and i think you are attacking me because i dont have the same beliefs as you. I dont wish to take this matter any further as this is an helpful forum and not a place for a disscussion which to me is off topic of illusion and magic and i also would like to recieve helpful support off of you in the future and i dont want us to fall out over something which was not intented on my behalf as an attack.

Lindz

Like I said, don't take afront to what I said at too personal a level. I know that many people (myself included) react to things and in hind-sight, which they'd worded and presented their case differently. I also admit that I am quick on the trigger when it comes to this sort of thing because I'm one of the few in this business that will speak out in opposition to the growing skeptic/cynic's ideals and the seeming plot they have to convert everyone in magic towards a more Agnostic/Atheist point of seeing things.

I just hope that our confused young friend hasn't been frightened off at this point, due to some of the more direct and rude comments made prior to my getting to him.