talkmagic.co.uk

May i recomend my favorite magic Dvd that covers this subject. David Stones the real secrets behind close up magic? some great non gimmicked effects on there too.

Ha! I noticed that too Seige. Frankly if you get turned down ever when you've been invited to perform you'd best take a look at your body language, dress sense and people skills (!)

Oh and the David Stone DVD is super as Markdini said. Covers all the points you've asked about Greedoniz.

seige wrote:

fuma wrote:Also, keep in mind it is not my style to just go up to a table and start performing. I am either invited over, ask permission after a proper introduction or they are regulars that are there specifically to see me. So it's not like I am some arrogant pig head that just starts performing and ignores the negative responses. Not in the least. The guests at the establishment are my guests as well and I treat them as such. I ALWAYS ask them first. Unless they are regulars that I know and/or I am requested.

So, you've totally missed the point... how can you be REFUSED if you are invited?

Seriously, you've not read this post at all have you ?

Way to jump the gun without asking for clarification. Yes I have read the post, and YOU my friend, missed the point by not thoroughly reading my post. I meant I don't go up to a table and just start doing an effect without proper introduction. As I have seen so many do.

Please re-read my quote, "I am either invited over, ask permission after a proper introduction or they are regulars that are there specifically to see me."

That's 3 different type of approaches in a bar type environment

Anyway, I have had conversations with Greedoniz, we are on the same page.

I thoroughly read your post, actually. In fact I've re-read it.

And it still stands—if you're lucky enough to be 'familiar' or invited, then you're unlikely to be refused.

What I said still stands

It DOES happen... and it IS normal. And your situation is CLEARLY different to the situation which started this thread.

Perhaps you're just lucky the fact that you don't 'cold call' on tables, but most close-up workers descend on the general public, and you have to be prepared for negatives or refusals.

And I'm sorry if you thought I'd jumped the gun, but it's not me who's making out that by being turned away from a table is abnormal!

And your situation is CLEARLY different to the situation which started this thread.

How do you know my situation?.....please don't assume by what I typed and what you took out of context as you knowing my situation. I made 3 EXAMPLES, you chose to hit on the one and ignore the others.

80-90% of my approaches are unsolicited, the other 10-20% are regulars and requests. I never said I exclusively go on requests...there is that clear now.

Anyway, as I stated I have had conversation with the guy who started this thread and we both understand each other, that is all that is necessary at this point. That is why I asked him to PM me. This is far too complicated to discuss in a forum where everyone is jumping in. Therefore I now bow out of this childish discussion and will continue the private discussion with the posts originator.

Cool. I hate childish discussions

So, therefore, you agree that:

fuma wrote:All I can say is...WOW!!

Am I reading this right or am I missing something?!

I am hearing numbers like 50 and 25% refusals! Now I don't know what your magic skills, people or socials skills are but I work 4 bars/restaurants a week plus my corporate and private functions on the weekend and I would have to say I get turned down MAYBE....MAYBE once or twice A YEAR at best! And I don't recall EVER getting refused at a private or corporate gig....ever!

ACTUALLY means that yeah people DO get turned down, but you don't.

OK, I read your post wrongly I guess. But so did a lot of others. It came across wrongly it seems.

Apologies all round for me jumping in and ruining the thread!

seige wrote:ACTUALLY means that yeah people DO get turned down, but you don't.

OK, I read your post wrongly I guess. But so did a lot of others. It came across wrongly it seems.

Apologies all round for me jumping in and ruining the thread!

I apologize as well, if I did not make it clear. I think the original poster got what I meant though.

So. let me try once again....maybe it's the pond between us that is the issue

All I was saying was that no one should be getting turned down 10-25% if it's being done properly..that's all I was trying to say. It wasn't a holier than thou statement. It's true it's super rare that I get turned down at my regular weekly gigs, but it should also be rare for anyone in a strolling situation, regardless of the venue. Bar, lounge, corporate gig, wedding, whatever....if your intro, attitude, dress and people skills are up to snuff and they know that you are not looking to solicit them or embarrass them you should not be turned down.

One technique for "softening the crowd" is to first have a formal performance. In other words before doing your walk around magic do a short show in front of the entire group. This introduces you and create interest from the beginning. In a bar you will have to go behind the bar to accomplish this so tip the bartender. At something like a wedding you could go to where the band is. Again a tip is a good idea.

The point is to get attention so that they WANT you to do something.

Hope that helps.

At both of these when I approached groups of people, politely introduced myself and asked whether they would like to see some magic I got a 50% refusal. Is this a normal thing?

I agree with Airamas that it is good to do a formal piece for everybody before the table hopping. I certainly prefer to do this if possible.

Please never ask if they want to see some magic!

When you where unmarried did you ask the girl if you could kiss her? No!!!! This is would almost certainly be a turn off. No, maybe you would go for a walk, chat, look at the stars, and then - maybe - you would kiss her.

The demanding art of table hopping requires a certain natural confidence that come with experience. Sometimes I use similar lines as thouse advocated by Bill Malone on the Bill Marlone DVDs 1-4.

"I am a part of the intertainment...." "I appologise, but I am all they could afford".... Then I would go on and hand out bunch of cards to different spectators asking them to shuffle the cards. They are already all involved in a common activity. Suppose one in the group not are so keen having you there. What can he/she do? Not a lot!!!

[remark: I will then collect the cards and do shuffle board or some other very strong effect that utilise the fact that the procedure does not genuinely shuffle the cards. I have my own take on how shuffle board should be performed but this is a different issue]

Asking if they what to see some magic is a fundamental mistake! What do they know? They never watched YOUR magic, so they are basically not qualified to have an oppinion about it!!!

Asking if they what to see some magic is a fundamental mistake! What do they know? They never watched YOUR magic, so they are basically not qualified to have an oppinion about it!!!

I think Mr sankey said that on the "Real work on Restruants and bars" and the man has made a few pennies from resturants over the years.

David Stone and Martin Sanderson have some great ideas on table approach actually begining the magic before you can get the rejection.

but i do recmend 3 Dvds on this subject , covering rejection and table approach. David stones, Martin sandersons the business and Sankeys real work on..

I would sooner get rejected then have a spec who dosent really want to see magic and be difficult. Rejection happens like on Blaines first TV show
how many takes do you think he got before they got some one to apear on the cammera?[/quote]

I would sooner get rejected then have a spec who dosent really want to see magic and be difficult.

Just because one in the party do not want you there in the first place does not mean that they become difficult spectators! As soon as the group is engaged, the reluctant spectator will just joint in. I usually address difficult (or some times moderately difficult spectators) head on. "Whow, you are a so-called difficult spectator. They have written books about you...."
Then I might go on to do a triumf routine using Daryls display and a ploy by Dai Vernon. I will tell them about a difficult spectator I once encountered and who to my horror shuffled the cards face down into face up cards.... I then explain how I kind of paniced, until I realised that I after all was a magician, and just by casting a shadow over the cards ..... Then I spred out the cards to show effect one.. that they are all the same way.. and after roughly 3 seconds when the effect has been propertly taken in, spread out further the section of cards containing their selection and show effect two that their card is face up.

One would think that this approach might invite for further obstructions from the difficult spectator, but this never happened to me.....

I use triumph has the opener for my card set, i say set its 3/5 routines,

Triumph
pip trip
Bidle trick

and if i am feeling adventruous i do Ashies on the arm. Ok nothing majorly heavy on the slight front but they work and work good, and if i really want to impress I do volie rouge as my opener , a David Stone Colour changing deck with a kicker at the end.

So let me recap

Here is where I reckon I'm going wrong. This is both from PMs and on here

1) Do not ask "Do you want to see some magic?"
2) Do not prowl around a table first whilst look for a vict..... spectator
3)My black t-shirt that says "Magician" is probably a bad idea.
4) I should introduce myself,ask the names of spectator and engage in a small bit of small talk before launching the magic assault


Maybe a do's and dont list could be expanded on and if it becomes useful then maybe it could become a sticky?

Unless I'm the only inept person when it comes to approaches I think that most people beginning to delve into the world of perform magic to strangers might find a list such as this very enlightening.

Soren Riis wrote:

When you where unmarried did you ask the girl if you could kiss her? No!!!! This is would almost certainly be a turn off. No, maybe you would go for a walk, chat, look at the stars, and then - maybe - you would kiss her.

Actually it is my experience that women find being asked if you may kiss them an incredible turn on.

I also find that walking up to a table, saying you're all the entertainment they could afford, and then launching into your routine a little rude. Surely asking if they'd like to see some magic is simple good manners. Like asking a girl if you can kiss her, it actually makes them like you rather than thinking you're Mr. Light Entertainment (or Mr. Lover Man depending on whether you're kissing or conjuring).

This is definitely a culture thing. In Canada even if they don't want to watch they will always agree to and you have a chance to win them over.

In obnoxious Britain they are quite liable to tell you to clear off. I think the favoured response from the clever clods is "are you a magician? Then disappear!"

It is not considered good showmanship to swear at the people who say this and I advise against it.