talkmagic.co.uk

Now then now then now then ladies and gentleman. The E word has to be one of the most talked/argued about in the realm of magic. At first glance the idea that something you've worked so hard to perfect can be ruined by any little scrote with some ability to Google is annoying, if not down right abhorrent.

However, it popped into my head this morning that I've never actually been compromised by it, even back when I was all Blainified and running about with Ravens and what not at the peak of his early fame. So, I thought I'd ask if anyone has ever had a spectator say "I know how that's done, I saw it on the net" or anything similar.

Please bare in mind this is a simple yes/no question, the ethics (including the straightforward and slightly different issue of people's livelihoods being affected) have been much debated elsewhere. I'm merely interested in a show of hands to find out who has been adversely affected during or after a performance and how.

Thanks.

I have said no.

Although I did once have a spec who spotted I was using a key card, he knew a very basic key card routine which he shouted out. However I wasn't using the key card to directly reveal the chosen card so just got on with the trick and in the end the spec looked the fool.

Even if some laymen know how some tricks are done, they're not going to put the effort into finding out how every trick is done. Or even anywhere a small percentage of them all.
There's simply such a wide variety of magic, its impossible to thouroughly expose it to a mass audience.
It's people like us, the wierdo's (maybe), who find out about magic and use it for ourselves.

I've never been exposed by such means, anyway, but I'm only a beginner.

Years ago I used to do the cigarette ash to palm effect at parties and in bars to friends but ever since it was on Street magic revealed I've had to stop doing it.
Several times after the show, which I haven't seen, I tried this out ony to have a few shout "Oooh I saw how to do this on tv".
At the time I was still fairly new to magic and this effect was my party piece that I could rely on but was ruined by exposure.
It makes me feel sad inside

I had this annoying girl who started at my work a few months ago..

One day I showed a whole bunch of tricks in the pool room with great reactions... after I finished them all this new girl announced her brother 'is a magician' and went on to expose every trick I just did ( well, not teh tricks themselves.. but some really basic but neccessary concepts) .. she talked about D/L's, glides, glimpse, false transfers.. I did not know how to respond.. after she cam up to me and said that I was better than her brother and although she never noticed me doing any sleights.. she revealed what I was doing as her brother always got embarassed by people because he wasnt very good. She felt sorry for him so exposed my performances so she could tell her brother so he 'felt better' .. something to that effect

That of course, shouldnt have given her any reason to reveal what was going on at all.. she was just being spiteful.. she had read books so she knew what was going on even though she couldnt do it herself.

She left after one week. Consequently, I cant do magic at work as often anymore as every time I try to do a trick I always get ' Whats in that hand.. wait.. did you pick up 2 cards there.. let me shuffle.. etc etc

Those people that was there when she turned into miss bit** always shout over things like ' Hey, can I borrow your TT' things like that.

There are still plenty of people that started or that work in a different area of the floor that I can still perform for but quite a few people do not want to know although they admit 'Im still good'

I've said it before and I'll say it again, never show people things in a way they can recognize. This means never performing anything as it's "supposed" to be used. Strip it down and build it into something uniquely your own. Hide the methods so deeply they don't exist for anyone except you.

I agree. A lesson well learned.. I have realised the importance over the last few months of making a trick your own, putting your own storyline in.. buliding the suspense up in a way that makes it natural to you.

I wasnt performing a lot of the tricks out of RRTCM as I thought the presentational ideas were dated.. then I realised '' Just use a different presentation '' and what do you know.. I know use those tricks and they are performed what seems entirely different to how I first learned them

Hmmm, 50-50 so far. Interestingly poor old Greedoniz is the only one who's had the problem I thought would arise, that of mainstream media ruining a trick.

The issues that Lady of Mystery and I.D. have had are interesting though, I never really thought about people who actually knew techniques saying so. The whole key card thing is common knowledge I think, everyone's seen their Dad or someone doing a card trick that relies on it (which makes it all the sweeter when you still use it) but you really got a raw deal with the Exposure Witch I.D. In a situation like that I think I'd spring a self worker that didn't use any identifiable sleights (I've said it before and I'll say it again, Untouched off ETMCM 3 is priceless) or even maybe a bit of mental magic that she's unlikely to know.

Err can i have the kinda option on this

I had a know it all spec the other day i mean KNOW IT ALL. only happend the once and it wasnt that much exposure because it was only me and him there. All i have had a few people say to me "is this the one where you look at the the card above mine before i put it in?" and i say nope
and give the deck a pass, I dont actually use the key card any more.

Funnily enough, the ID was the only thing she could not figure out.. but she threw in the braue reversal techniwue into her '' dribblings '' .. I did it really slow and she assumed that I ''was very good at sleight of hand''

I think maybe the reason I didnt go down the route of proving her wrong or shutting her up is how much did she know? My self workers I felt at that time were all i had left and if I continued doing trick after trick, I cant assume she wouldnt have known the method.. I just decieded to leave it be.. I didnt perform any tricks for about a months after. Luckily peoples memory with magic is very short. They remember the effects they do not remember the minute details. So give it till a few months into the new year I should be able to bust out those tricks and they should have forgotton by then

She had the nerve to refer to her brother as a magician.. apparantly he had being doing magic for about 5 years and still wasnt any good!!

This topic has been addressed far too many times on every forum you can find that deals with Magic. Here's an example of the same thing in a slightly different mode of wordage http://www.themagicwoods.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2612&start=0

Fact of the matter is "Exposure" actually helps magic far more than it hurts. It helps bring in new blood, new approaches and most importantly, it gets the lazier of our kind off their duff and into learning more than the basics.

Anyone familiar with Rick Maue's Book of Haunted Magick will see just one way by which a pro can readily use an exposed method and in so doing, throw everyone in the room off INCLUDING those pesky magic know-it-alls. You will find all sorts of perspective from a number of sources and the bottom line boils down to the fact that 95% of the exposure out there hurts no one.

Good points from Craig there. That's one reason why I have backups for just about all my tricks. If someone decides that they know the method and shouts it out, I'll usually just drop into my reserve method. They quickly look like a fool and shut up quite quickly. Another way I like to do it if possible is to carry on so it looks like I'm doing what they think I'm doing, only to srping a suprise finish on them.

Craig, I agree that exposure helps...

However... as I mentioned recently, there's SO MUCH material being 'passed around' currently that I am sure that there will be deterrent's start cropping up...

As a writer and retailer, I've actually stopped putting certain downloads on my site. Mainly because I was told by a member of another UK forum that one item had already appeared on filesharing networks—and this was less than 2 weeks after it was exclusively released on my site.

Now frankly, that DID hurt.

As far as the 'YouPooh-b' exposures, I see a lot of crud on there... and HOPEFULLY, anyone with half a brain cell who is serious about performing will actually go out and learn the stuff from a proper source.

Back to Bronz's original question...
There's a certain effect (which I won't name) sold by me, which is EXCLUSIVE. How do I know it's exclusive? I'm the author, that's how.

So, I'm both the AUTHOR and the SELLER of said effect. And I keep a reasonably tight eye on sales. So when someone I've never even sold the effect to comes storming in and telling everyone how rubbish and what a waste of money the effect is, I get a little upset.

And it's happened. On this very forum.

No names mentioned, and no grudges held—but there IS exposure happening which is damaging to businesses.

As far as being a performer...
One of my favourite effects has always been Dynamic Coins, ever since I bought a rather expensive version as a teen.

As are D-Lite's. And Sven decks, and on and on.

But all this stuff is freely available in Woolworths, Hawkins etc. as TOYS.

Surely this is exposure? Surely some performer's arsenals are being diluted by this?

But is it harmful to introduce magic of this type to mainstream shops?

Yes, I believe in a way it is. Because, by making it freely available, more people will see it, meaning more people will know how it's done, which potentially narrows down the people who DON'T know how it's done... i.e. prospective 'wowed' spectators.

I hope SOMEONE realises what I'm saying... finding it difficult to get the right wording today, mainly because I'm having to write this one line at a time in stolen moments between phone calls and artwork!

I guess exposure affects different types of people in different ways. As said above it's probabaly much worse for the sellers as they're loosing sales because of it. But then there's a flip side to that coin. Take for example a kid who finds a poor tutorial on youtube of a trick they'd never come across before. They learn the trick but because the tutorial is so poor (which most are) they never learn the handling and can't perform the trick well. They get frustrated and go and buy the trick to learn it properly. Youtube introduced them to a trick they didn't know and because of that eventually bought it. Exposure has just managed to actually generate a sale.

This actually happened with me, I saw sinful figured out a method for it. Couldn't get the handling spot on so bought the DVD.

As far as the performer is concerned I don't see it as a problem. Stripper decks that coin shells for example are such a versatile tools that there is so much you can do with them that no one is going to think that a skilled magician is going to use something they bought in Hawkins for £1.50.

Exposure can generate interest in magic which in the longer run will lead to increased sales for the sellers.

To be honest it was exposure that got me back into magic. A couple of years ago I was at a friends BBQ and another of her friends was a magican. He was showing people his tricks. I got chatting to him and told him that I used to do some magic, he taught me some tricks and secrets which I went away and learned. That resparked my interest, so I went out and bought books and tricks and here I am now. If it wasn't for him, I'd probabaly never have got back into it again.

Lady of Mystery wrote:To be honest it was exposure that got me back into magic.

If I never took that guy out and got him hammered, he wouldnt have messed up shapeshifter and 2 card monte and if so, i wouldnt be here today!!