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i was just wondering what peoples opinions are on figuring out an effect on your own. I watched the sinfull demo over and over mainly cuz i was looking to see if the can was gimmicked or anything but after the 10th time i realized i figure out how to do it. I practiced for a bit and showed my family and they were shocked. But i was wondering is that considered stealing? I mean the trick is so easy to do it is the only ellusionist trick i figured out without buying it. let me know what you think.

I am not for it. I feel that even if you figure it out you should buy the dvd or book. You gain so much more that way.

( i will say more on this later.)

There are existing threads on the ethics of this sort of thing and generally speaking the consensus of opinion is as David says above. Figure it out if you like but at least buy the item to check that you're right and give the inventors their due reward.

Too tired to get in to the ethics debate, so coming at this from another angle..

"..I watched the sinfull demo over and over.."

Ellusionist (they're not the only ones) have flouted Rule#1: Never repeat an effect for an audience

darkcrow13 wrote:i was just wondering what peoples opinions are on figuring out an effect on your own. I watched the sinfull demo over and over mainly cuz i was looking to see if the can was gimmicked or anything but after the 10th time i realized i figure out how to do it. I practiced for a bit and showed my family and they were shocked. But i was wondering is that considered stealing? I mean the trick is so easy to do it is the only ellusionist trick i figured out without buying it. let me know what you think.

I am a bit puzzled what you mean when you say you "figured out" how sinful is done. The informed (coin) magician should have a pretty clear idea how - roughly - the effect can be done. However, I doubt many magicians will be able to work out the very elegant key idea. More likely they will - like me - introduce some more complicated moves that diminish the effect and makes it harder to perform.

Like I did, I am sure most Magicians can work out an approximation of the method behind sinful, however for the real work and optimal handelig you really need to buy the DVD.

So even if it was accetable that you work out your own method, I strongly recommend you buy the DVD.

Agree with Soren, you are buying so much than the method alone. I value the (too few) purchases I've made because thay often include
:
General insights which you can reapply to other effects;
Tips specific to the effect which are the result of 100's (1000's?) of man-hours 'debugging' during development/performance etc.

I agree strongly with the above two posts.
But I also think this raises the question of how different does your method have to be from a copyrighted trick to be original.
I have bought some tricks that have been extremely similar to older effects, in a lot of cases they have credited the original, but they are still making money from their version.

I too managed to work out how to do sinful, but I did buy the DVD afterwards. Trust me it's worth it, there are some brilliant handling tips in there which I'd have never figured out on my own. THe DVD really imporved my pewrformance of the trick and was worth buying.

i have a clear view on the question. if you figured it out, brownie points to you. and just practice what you think is the method, however, if you buy the effect you may become much better at it and much quicker to. it's a good argument.

well that is just it. I have no idea if this is even Wayne Houchin's technique that i have. For all i know i could totally be doing it a different way, and yet my way is still effective. I have done it about 5 times and have gotten great reactions. So for all i know Wayne and I have different ways of acheiving the same effect. I think the one part that we do the same for sure is slamming the coin into the can. There is no other way to pull that off with out a gimmicked can.

I'd say buy the DVD, I'm not going to get into the ethics arguement but I'd get the DVD for the simple reason that it WILL improve your performance. Even if your two methods are totally different, it's good tro see other methods, you'll be able to take things from each, merge them together and come away with a much stronger effect.

I've done this with a number of tricks, I try to learn as many methods for my tricks as possible. This is good because if somethjing goes wrong with one method you might be able toi find a away to switch to another.

I have to say that I'm about the WORST when it comes to working out how things are done. Not only do I NOT have the patience to sit and watch re-runs over and over, you could sometimes drive an artic and 40ft trailer across the screen and I would miss it

I suppose it's similar to how they sum up who want's to be a millionaire - the questions are only easy if you know the answer

dat8962 wrote:I have to say that I'm about the WORST when it comes to working out how things are done. Not only do I NOT have the patience to sit and watch re-runs over and over, you could sometimes drive an artic and 40ft trailer across the screen and I would miss it

I suppost it's similar to how they sum up who want's to be a millionaire - the questions are only easy if you know the answer

Actually, many effects can be done in more than one way. The key to work out how an effect is done is simply to know the magic literature and be familiar with known methods. There is very little new under the sun!

Yes - I agree and realise that, but sometimes you just can't see the wood for the trees .

I just enjoy watching certain things for what they are and I just can't be fussed at trying to work them out. If I want to know then I'll buy it, which is what others were saying in earlier posts.

Chances are you are doing it wrong. Without giving anything away, I also thought that I knew how to do the trick, and I was completely wrong after I saw the DVD. There is another way to do the trick but is flawed from the way WH and CA shows you how to do it on the Masterminds DVD. The DVD is very worth it. Like another poster has stated, even if you are doing it the right way they give you helping tips at how to handle.