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I don't know to much about past magicains and was wondering who do you think is like the ultimate magicain of all time. I mean a magicain I could study and learn the true art of magic

Dai Vernon.
Probably the greatest ever.

Makes sense, if you're going to pick a magician to learn from why not the Professor

Marlo's another. Pure magic inspiration, the guy ate, slept, lived and worked magic 24/7. A true inspiration.

A great way to learn about 'yesteryear greats' is to get some cheaper contemporary books, and look who are today's magician's idols.

There will be many names you never heard of, but it paints a rich picture.

Dont forget the works of Jean Hugaurd and Bobo of course. I think Hugaurd wrote books on other forms of magic, I have his thimble book and I know he wrote a coin book too.

Not really an old timer but Jeff Mcbride because of his thinking and therorey of magic and Ammar can be a good steping stone on some of his vids, I think he was taught by Vernon. And if you want to go back way in to the past for thinking and insperation you got Houdin and Houdini.

totalmagic wrote:I don't know to much about past magicains and was wondering who do you think is like the ultimate magicain of all time. I mean a magicain I could study and learn the true art of magic

It is too simplistic just to learn about one magician. If you want the learn a bit about the past (i.e. the history) of magic you need to be familiar with more than one person.

Many great magicians have contributed towards our art, but if I were to give you a very brief overview let me just throw a few names (many are missing and some of my choises is a bit arbitary. My choice is also biased towards card magicians).

Dai Vernon (the man that fooled Houdini), along with Ed Marlo, were possibly the most influential card magicians of the 20th century and Vernon perhaps the most skilful sleight of hand artist that has ever lived.

Vernon was a great inventor and many of today’s ideas magicians sell under new names are minor modifications of ideas known to Vernon. Vernon developed a theory of card magic that roughly stated that a card magician should never display any skill. All skill should be hidden. [remark: Derren brown and most other mentalist stick to Vernons maxime and try to avoid displaying any skill and dexterity. Often people do not realise hat Derren Brown in fact is a very skilled magician who can easily switch cards and content of envelopes etc around in front of people].

Vernon was deeply influenced by the book “The Expert at the Card Table” by S. W. Erdnase from 1902. This is a book detailing sleight of hand and cheating techniques using playing cards. No one knows the true identity of Erdnase though many theories has been formed. Many slights in Erdinase where developed to go unnoticed in a poker game where a single mistake literally would be punished by death! Vernon continued the work be Erdinase and tried to learn from many of the most famous poker cheaters in the wild west!

The guiding principle of sleight-of-hand, articulated by legendary close-up magician Dai Vernon, is "be natural." A well-performed sleight looks like an ordinary, natural and completely unsuspicious change in hand position or body posture.

Ed Marlo was the other major influence in card magic. He coined the term cardician, a term which has since been used for magicians who only perform card magic. Marlo wrote over sixty books and manuscripts, and contributed over 2000 tricks in the field of card magic. His books include "The Cardician" and "Revolutionary Card Technique". Marlos philosophy of card magic is similar to that of Dai Vernon. No flourishes in card magic as it is seen to undermine the magic.

Allan Ackerman is an expert at sleight of hand magic with playing cards. His published material is extensive. He is also a thinker of magic. His has been a professor of Mathematic at a University of Las Vagas. Ackerman is a student of Ed Marlo. Ackerman is also expert in flourishes but have sympathy with Verrnon and Marlo’s view on flourishes.

Juan Tamariz (1942) Spanish magician. As a cardician, he is very well respected among magicians as an authority in the field of misdirection. He is also known for his work with memorized deck set-ups. Along with Arturo de Ascanio, Tamariz has spearheaded a school of thought in close-up magic that has produced FISM award-winning champions and deeply influenced the craft of magic worldwide. Tamariz does not use flourishes but is frequently using gaffed cards, but to my knowledge his use is always fully justified and not done out of “lazyness”.

Fred Kaps only three times winner of the FISM world championship in magic. I truely outstanding alround magician. Maybe when I have more time I will include many more in my list (more detains on specific magicians can be found on wikipedia).

John Ramsay, Roy Walton, Alex Elmsley, Theo Anneman, Doc Daley, Hofzinser....


Vernon and Marlo are the two obvious choices for close up bu it's worth noting that often Marlo was 'creative' with his crediting. Often stealing from lesser known magicians. One such case is documented in Eugene Burgers 'Solomons mind' book. Absolutely legendary ability though, extremely influential.

I agree with Søren that you should not limit yourself to only one magician, because there were so many great magicians that have passed away.

Just to keep adding masters to the list, I think Cardini was truly one of the greatest magicians. There is a thread about him here.

StevieJ wrote:Makes sense, if you're going to pick a magician to learn from why not the Professor

I can give you a few dozen reasons, starting with the fact that the "man" you all envision was nothing close to who the old b***** really was

There is no "ONE" Ultimate magician in that they are all human beings and prone to vice and weakness. There are certain common factors however, that you will find in most of your more successful or "legendary" performers and probably the biggest trait is that of being "human" and connecting with your audience. There are few exceptions to this rule and I'll not name the couple that fit said niche. But as a rule of thumb the most admired and remembered are the "gentlemen"... most of whom project a very refined and healthy nature and most of whom admired (and demonstrated) two key traits that seemed to cinch it all up; the willingness to put in an honest day of hard labor in order to accomplish your goals; and the willingness to learn and strive towards self-improvement, no matter what... education and etiquette if you would, are the proven key.

When it comes to technique, which is what I think you're really asking about, the answer depends entirely on what it is you are studying and who best fits your own style and personality. I have a serious problem learning from Corinda (though I know it well) but I tend to subconsciously absorb everything Bob Cassidy puts out because he thinks and performs in ways that are very similar to my own.

If I were to study coins... in fact when I was doing that kind of magic, I studied the works of Jules Lenear and Hyram Straight because they were two of the best coin men working at the Magic Castle in those days. If I wanted to learn the Top-It I'd have to study the guys that made it work best like Michael Ammar... the moral of the story being, find who is the best at a technique you are intrigued by and learn from them. I've been exceptionally fortunate to learn from the guys that made this stuff famous; Peter Pit having given me my first "professional" Dancing Cane after I'd proven myself in my studies... and believe me, any one of the big names would prefer seeing you working and using their material properly than running up to them at a convention and trying to show how you've "improved" on it or simply can't get it. Some of them can be quite gracious when they see a serious and dedicated student that's putting time into their studies... don't go looking for such kudos but know that they do happen and in many ways.

It is therefore up to you to simply become the best "Magician" you can be and not worry about all the rest. Learn about the past masters, and learn to work towards such airs of greatness within yourself, but always remember that they were all human and some of them had some very ugly skeletons in their closets the typical reader of their tales and trickery will never become aware of.

wow, that is tough, my favorite of all time is Dai Vernon, he freaking rox. And he does the linking rings soooo good.

wow, that is tough, my favorite of all time is Dai Vernon, he freaking rox. And he does the linking rings soooo good.

For showmanship, I would have to say Houdini, the only magician who is still a household name over 80 years after his death.

As far as writers are concerned, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Tarbell, whose influence has been enormous.

Also look out for books by Walter Gibson. His book "What's New in Magic" started my serious interest in the subject. A few of his books are available from Dover.

Barry

magicofthemind wrote:For showmanship, I would have to say Houdini, the only magician who is still a household name over 80 years after his death.

As far as writers are concerned, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Tarbell, whose influence has been enormous.

Also look out for books by Walter Gibson. His book "What's New in Magic" started my serious interest in the subject. A few of his books are available from Dover.

Barry

Ok... Houdini probably would get laughed at in todays world. If you ever see his films or listen to recordings of his performances... HE STANK! But he was a hustler and understood sales along side promotion, that is how he created a legend around himself.

Hands down, when you are speaking of the greats of the Golden Era, the two primary names that come up are Blackstone Sr. and Howard Thurston with Dante setting to the side just a bit and of course Kellar, who was the guiding force around Thurston.

I'll agree when it comes to the early (oft forgotten) writers; Walter Gibson was phenomenal in his contributions on the whole (he is likewise the creator of THE SHADOW mystery shows of radio fame), Harlen Tarbell, Robert Nelson and of course Henning Nelms and Henry Hay left indelible impressions on the world of magic... but we could say similar things, retrospectively and in more current reference, about Mark Wilson's contributions as well as those of Richard Webster, Waters, McBride, Maven and a plethora of others... my point being that "greatness" stems from perspective... there's a thread around here somewhere about PSYCHOMETRY that credits Mark Wilson... to me, given my background, such is a serious chuckle, but to the young person that found it and discovered it's "power" this simply is not the case, hence their accolades around the routine...

Anywho... just some gravvy to go with this entree...

You know, the more I think about this, and the more I plough through the rather difficult original text (been at it seriously since New Year!), the more I realise that we all owe a very deep debt of gratitude to a guy called Reginald Scot and his "The Discoverie of Witchcraft" of 1584.

Tomo wrote:You know, the more I think about this, and the more I plough through the rather difficult original text (been at it seriously since New Year!), the more I realise that we all owe a very deep debt of gratitude to a guy called Reginald Scot and his "The Discoverie of Witchcraft" of 1584.

To a rather sizable degree, I have to agree. He kind of opened the proverbial door on things "officially" but in so doing, he robbed our craft, though but a bit, of its original codes of silence. His expose', as it were, was the beginning of magic's downfall as well as it's rise (it might take you all a while to figure all that out... not to worry, it will dawn upon you if you consider where I come from on things and why I would see it such.)

I think we owe a tremendous amount to people like Sielbit and Harbin as well, though their primary role centered more in contribution vs. showmanship.