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hello,

I just showed my dad two videos of Derren Brown on youtube which are the russian scam and the NLP one with the red BMX, and he reckons its all fake, how can i get him to see that its real menalism and not stooges and acting

What are you called "Real Mentalism"?

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Craig what do you mean? When i say Real mentalism i mean real psychological suggestion stuff. I'm obviously no expert on this subject so the terms i use arn't always going to be precise,

sorry!

take him to the live show and pay derren enough to make sure he's picked as someone to come up on stage

fender91 wrote:hello,

I just showed my dad two videos of Derren Brown on youtube which are the russian scam and the NLP one with the red BMX, and he reckons its all fake, how can i get him to see that its real menalism and not stooges and acting

do some 'mind reading' card tricks! OR get a marked deck, get him to pick a card, then take your time 'reading' him to reveal his card! use your imagination!!!

fender91 wrote:hello,

I just showed my dad two videos of Derren Brown on youtube which are the russian scam and the NLP one with the red BMX, and he reckons its all fake, how can i get him to see that its real menalism and not stooges and acting

The best way is to perform some mentalism for him yourself. Of course you cannot perfrom the above effects for him, but if it was me I would do some very strong mental effects.

do some 'mind reading' card tricks! OR get a marked deck, get him to pick a card, then take your time 'reading' him to reveal his card! use your imagination!!!

NO! Please, have a bit higher expatations about people! People might be polite, clap and praise you magic etc but like the magician people can also manipulate and be deseptive! No moderately intelligent person would confuse what you describe as "real" mind reading. However, a strong mentalist can create an illusion of real mind reading that is pretty convincing. One good approximantion to real mind reading (with an ungimmicked borrowed deck) is Dai Vernons "out of sight, out of mind".

I wouldnt claim to be a mentalist, or even say I know any mentalism routines! But I do use gimmicked decks, or card forcing to pretend i CAN read people, but i DONT say i can read their minds! just they're involuntary movements. everyone has their own techniques and methods, and im happy with the ones i use, as they work well in my routines!

fender91 wrote:hello,

I just showed my dad two videos of Derren Brown on youtube which are the russian scam and the NLP one with the red BMX, and he reckons its all fake, how can i get him to see that its real menalism and not stooges and acting

Fender, you can't convince someone who has already made up their mind by bashing away at their belief. It will only entrench whatever it is they have decided. Forget it and move on. Life's too short. Let your dad believe whatever it is he wants to believe.

fender91 wrote:Craig what do you mean? When i say Real mentalism i mean real psychological suggestion stuff. I'm obviously no expert on this subject so the terms i use arn't always going to be precise,

sorry!

I've been running across a few folks that think "Real" Mentalism is just another term for being a "real" Psychic, so I wasn't certain if you were getting the two ideas confused... no problem...

If you absolutely gotta go with Playing card mentalism, an area in which I'm firmly stuck on the fence, at least make it something REALLY impressive like Osterlind's Test Conditions. Simple, direct, impossible, and build it up big.

I have to admit that I'm still a hint confused on this issue... we have a man that don't believe some of the mentalism he saw on TV is real Mentalism..."it's all fake" and yet, you are trying to convince him that it's true Mentalism... which is "all fake"...

I'm going to go back to bad now... none of this makes sense and now you're talking about card tricks

I'd perform a mentalism effect. Derren Brown doesn't claim to be able to do anything psychically, so your Dad must admit it's not that and that it's either clever psychology or a stooge. So, you need an effect which uses clever psychology, even it's if different.

Since this is a force, rather than a read, your average mind reading trick is not going to cut the mustard, it's the wrong way round. However, if you're going to do a routine, it might warm him up.

Your Dad also has to admit that DB is a pro and if it is psychology, he can't expect his lad to bring up the same effect, nor afford the same props.

If you have Pure Effect or the Devil's picture book, there are a good few mental card forces in there. They need practice and confidence though. I'd also like some more resources for mental forces if people have suggestions.

Can you perform any force? If you can do a classic force then you can dress that up all sorts of DB ways to make it sound like you're influencing him. Have a backup if that force fails. Turn into a different sort of force.

How about a number force becoming something to do with a newspaper or magazine. You can reverse any book test and make it appear like a mental force.

A caveat to this sort of thing is that as a mentalist, there is a lot to do with choosing the spek and a lot to do with their attitude. If your dad just wants to make you fail, he might just do so.

Mentalism has failure and there's a lot to do with patter as an out. I think if someone chose the 8 of hearts and you were trying to force the 8 of diamonds, that's still a success in my book and should be made to appear so.

Let's just assume for a moment that Me Pegg had said he wanted a green bike. So what, he still wanted a BMX and he still wrote down jacket. A success, me thinks.

As an aside, a wise man on here once said "If you're worried about 20% failure, get out of mentalism".

Craig Browning wrote:I have to admit that I'm still a hint confused on this issue... we have a man that don't believe some of the mentalism he saw on TV is real Mentalism..."it's all fake" and yet, you are trying to convince him that it's true Mentalism... which is "all fake"...

I think the objective is to prove it was not a set up.

Craig Browning wrote:I have to admit that I'm still a hint confused on this issue... we have a man that don't believe some of the mentalism he saw on TV is real Mentalism..."it's all fake" and yet, you are trying to convince him that it's true Mentalism... which is "all fake"...

I'm going to go back to bad now... none of this makes sense and now you're talking about card tricks

Hehehehhehe

So...

How do you explain to someone that doesn't believe that a man is lying is really a real liar? He's a false liar!

So, does a false liar tell the truth?

Do two wrongs make a right?

All this, and more, on next week's episode of...

ANYWAY... to answer the 'main question', personally I'd tell your dad that the bloke's a paid entertainer who possesses very credible and clever abilities. And what he does is indeed real, and accomplished (on the whole) without stooges or accomplices.

In that sense, what he does certainly is real enough to the people he performs to. And that's the key—no matter WHAT method is being used, the ENTERTAINER fulfils the role of ENTERTAINING the spectator.

As for outside observations on the method, it can't be deemed 'real' or 'fake' unless we know what it's MEANT to be.

i.e. If Derren were to CLAIM he had psychic powers, and he USED pure trickery to accomplish the effect, then for sure he'd be FAKE.
However, Derren never mentions any claim, aside from he uses 'magic, suggestion, etc. etc.'.
Therefore, if he's CLAIMING to use deception, and not real powers, then if he's NOT using real powers then he's NOT FAKE.

Damn, I've even lost the thread of that myself!

ok now...which one of you is holding the ring?