talkmagic.co.uk

***link removed - Ebay listing of someone selling the secrets of a "revolution" from Ellusionist.***

He's basically selling the effect/method, and uses "Ellusionist" to advertise it. How is this legal?

cant do a thing about it, its not illegal, it sucks but that is the fact about it. it ruins magic but its not seen as stealing in others eyes (except magicians) the worst thing is posting the link so everyone can see it, i made that mistake about a year ago lol

Actually, I think there is something you can do...

He's very keen on his positive feedback. That's his Achilles Heel. Why not buy the ebook, send a copy to Ellusionist, leave him very negative feedback indeed exposing it, and refuse to withdraw it

I wouldn't worry about it too much resdog. Its probably only one time tricksters and un-ethical nobodies who will buy this anyway. Any real magician will look at it and turn away, in the knowledge that it is a guy making profit from other peoples work. Ive messaged him asking why he is using other peoples work ad explaining how it is very un-ethical, will wait and see if i get a reply loving.

On top of all this, he'll probs go to hell anyways

Hopfully he will at some point find out that someone is screwing his wife. Then he'll die of something horrible that involves puss and scabs then he'll rot in hell

A//

alanclimb wrote:Hopfully he will at some point find out that someone is screwing his wife. Then he'll die of something horrible that involves puss and scabs then he'll rot in hell

Yeesh, that's a bit morbid considering it's just a loser trying to make a buck. I bet he won't make more than a hundred bucks a year*.


*Don't damn me to hell if I'm wrong.

only joking

I'm sure his mother loves him

A//

and his boyfriend lol

it's just a loser trying to make a buck

That's one way of looking at it, the other way is that he's a thief who has stolen someone else's property and is openly selling it. You're right he probably won’t make much but the point is he shouldn't be making anything by selling things which aren't his to sell. If he has the setup and determination to trade on e-bay, why not trade items he legally owns then it would be all legal and we'd wish him the best of luck.

Ebay has an anti piracy policy, if he's selling illegal copies of something that he shouldn't you can report him to ebay. I've done this a few times when I've recieved copied DVDs with very good results.

Is it actually a copy or is it his own work? Is it the same patter, or his own intepretation? There's no law to protect secrets. Maybe he's just trying to make magic more accessible by selling it at a more reasonable rate.

Since the link is gone, I'm asking blind.

It looks like what he did was maybe buy the effect from Ellusionist (or learn it from YouTube). Then he wrote out a description of how it works, took some pictures, and created a pdf, explaining how to do the trick. I understand that there are no copyrights laws protecting secrets, but this seems a little underhanded to me. Does this mean that since I have a copy of "Warning", I can write out a description, take some pictures and put together an ebook, then sell it? And not just sell it, but advertise it as "The Trick that was too scary for Ellusionist." And use Daniel Garcia's name in the advertising?

Yeah, I'm sure this person isn't going to make a lot of money, but he is going to make SOME money off of something he has no right to sell.

if he's using Ellusionist's and Daniel Garcia's names without permission, he could be getting into shaky ground. If you're worried about it, drop Ellusionist an email and let them deal with it.

(the term "you" in this post is not aimed at the chronologically previous post, it's an open term)

(AS. there is a good chunk of Devil's advocate going on here to provoke thoughtful discussion)

Yes, we can sell any secret we want. If the original writer can't prove you've just reworded his work or that there was no possible way that the person could know this secret without the writer's work, then yes, you can sell it. So no, there is nothing we can do about it.

It's also the case that Ellusionist and others can take one trick, create some packaging and sell it for 20 quid or more.

Do you believe that magic should be exclusive to those who have pots of cash?

Do you suspect that the pirate and "own interpretation" market would exist if tricks didn't cost as much as they do? It's like playstation games and software. One half of the market sells high because the other copies because the other sells high because the other copies, etc.

Make your product inaccessible to those who desire it and you invite piracy. The piracy market says a lot about the perceived value of a product.

Do you think it would exist at all if magicians didn't sell their tricks in an open market place? Maybe magicians don't want to sell to a closed group because their selling potential is reduced.

It's certainly the case that direct breach of copyright is wrong. It's also the case that some interpretations of work are inferior to the original. If they are superior, however, are they not a better product?

I am skeptical of magical secrets being a monopoly driven market that does not invite any form of competition.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and only those without a single copied CD, DVD, mp3, piece of software or photocopied book page participate in this type of discussion.

FYI, the only dodgey material I entertain is stuff recorded off the telly that was never available on any other medium. Other than that, I'm clean.

Marvell wrote:Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and only those without a single copied CD, DVD, mp3, piece of software or photocopied book page participate in this type of discussion.

There is a big difference between me copying a CD for my own use (yes I know it's still illegal) and me copying 100s of CDs to sell on ebay to make a dishonest quid or two.

It is true though that many of the tricks on Ellusionist and other places are donkey's years old but with new jazzed up packaging.