talkmagic.co.uk

Instead of locking the threads for a day, how about the mods giving direct warnings to anybody who breaks the rules on here, with the message that they WILL be banned if they carry on.

I wont go into details, but will admit I blasted the mods in a recent thread, which I thought may have got me banned. I find it strange that the rules are more strict for some members than others. I will give the mods full due in deleting the entire thread, which took away the rule breaks on both sides.

seige, I do know it is a thankless unpaid job being a mod. There are more arguments when rules aren't seen being implied, unless it is to a newcomer. Please be harsher in deleting or banning for a while. Show us ALL that we can't get away with bending the rules as much as is happening.

I know this will be more work, but hope it will mean that it will then get easier, as you wont have senior members rule breaking all the time. Warn them by PM, then kick out if they carry on.

Edit.
Although I quoted a recent, deleted thread, I am not aimimg thyese remarks about any one person. Human nature is to keep pushing to see what you can get away with. Push back please mods.

There are no double-standards here as such. And there certainly isn't any favouritism.

The job of the admins/mods is made doubly hard by virtue of having to remain diplomatic, consistent and 'inviting'.

We've tried issuing warnings.

We've re-written the forum rules.

We've chastised plenty of times (which ALWAYS kicks up a fuss)

And yet still we are the top-line for getting flak.

It's getting increasingly more difficult to weed out the chaff, and moreso lately it's very difficult encouraging sturdy, solid contributors when all they seem to get is abuse.

I don't actually propose we lock the forums—that was a little harsh. But it would pay dividends if people actually:

1. Used the search function now and then

2. Actually read an entire topic before tagging their own naive and unfounded ramblings at the end of a 3rd page of a thread

3. Acted in a communal spirit... taking into account TalkMagic IS and always has been a community. There's no benefit in coming in here and shooting from the hip without realising that some of us have been here for many years, and take pride in this place. A little respect, not just for each other, but for the COMMUNITY wouldn't go amiss.

4. As I've said before, it would be rather nice to see posts made where the author actually THOUGHT OF THE CONSEQUENCE or IMPLICATION of what they've written before pressing the submit button.

TalkMagic has always been a great place to come and chat about magic. There's hundreds of great posts here by lots of great people.

The internet masks us and gives us anonymity. We can be whoever we want on these forums, and act however we want because we're totally unknown. But that doesn't give us the right to.

Many of us are 'what you see is what you get' and honest, we are simply just being ourselves. And it's difficult sometimes with all the personality conflicts which occur in real life for everyone to get on.

HOWEVER... in real life, if you're out and about and there are people you don't get on with, what do you do? Go up to them and tell them they are an idiot? Poke at them for a reaction?

No, you don't (unless you're rude, or just have no etiquette)

It would be nice to see the same self-moderation in this community... if you DO NOT LIKE someone else, or if you DO NOT HAVE SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY, then why join in on that debate and ruin it for those who are taking part who ARE like minded? Just because you don't conform to that particular discussion doesn't mean you have to join in, at any level.

There are people here from all walks of life. And until recently, we all got along splendidly. Yeah, for sure, little 'clicks' and pockets were formed, but that's just NATURAL human behaviour. But it doesn't stop us all getting along, acting as a community, and doing a bit of give/take.

I totally agree with Craig about the Church theory... on the run up to my own Church wedding, I was required to attend Church on Sundays to be accepted into the Church community. This was because I wasn't Christened as a child.

At first, I felt like a total hypocrite, having not visited a Church voluntarily for many years. But as time went on, and I was accepted and became known by name by the Church's regulars, I actually felt a part of the congregation.

And yes—I even stood before them on occasion and spoke... something which some of the regulars had never done. I acted with good will, got into the spirit of things, and actually became a MEMBER rather than an ONLOOKER. And you know what? It felt bloomin' great. I didn't feel like a hypocrite, and I did it because I wanted to, not because I felt pressured. People I'd never met before, and probably never will in my day-to-day life were there for a like-minded purpose. And there was a sense of belonging, forgiveness, and community... no matter who you are, what you do, where you're from, or what your misgivings may be.

(Thanks Rev. David Humphries, St Mary's in Shawbury, and his congregation, by the way...)


I wish many more people would adopt a community spirit... feel a part of the community, contribute—give & take–and do so of your own will without agenda, malice or hatred.

A point will come at this rate where humans could become unconditioned to real life socialising. Social skills are lost, it seems, to some extent.

I personally have almost given up on this forum twice in the past.

I was the first ever elected Administrator of TalkMagic, given the crown—as it were—which I took with honour.

But it soon became apparent that having to be everyone's friend, act neutrally and diplomatically and with responsible judgement wasn't my cup of tea. Being accused of favouritism, dual-standards and 'ar*e licking' aren't nice badges to be given when you KNOW you're not THAT PERSON.

So I resigned my Adminship, on the grounds that I'm not a natural referee, and neither am I prepared to take flak from people I've never met in real life and who aren't/wouldn't be prepared to say such things to my face.

So, here we are: almost full-circle. I'm getting to the point of chucking in my Moderator crown again.

Why?

Because I am growing tired of abuse. Tired of constant bickering. Tired of editing or deleting posts made by people without common decency to introduce themselves as REAL PEOPLE before they can barge in and speak their mind.

Because I object to being called a brown-noser for actually liking someone which not many others do. Is that a crime?

Because I don't like being called a 'useless t**t' for not deleting a post at 3am when I was in bed.

Because I don't like seeing people ruining a community which I feel I helped to build.

There... I've had my say. I hope that it made sense to at least a small percentage of you out there. And if nothing else, I feel cleansed and calm now.

There won't be a 'locked forum' day. But from a selfish point of view, it would be a Godsend

I agree with most of what you're saying, people coming on here asking how "tricks are done" without reading or putting in any hard work into magic themselves should be severely discouraged as many of these people disappear after their questions remain unanswered.

As for the favouritism thing, sorry, but there has been special exceptions for some people who consistently break the rules and deliberately go out to cause offence to anyone they can. (Then collate these ramblings and sell them)
Admiring someones work is one thing, but forgiving them all they do is another. I liked the music of Gary Glitter years ago but have no respect for the man and his repulsive behaviour.

Fairness is all that people want really and this forum is the best one around for magic chat as there are people at all levels who have genuine enthusiasm and experience to share and in the main are very helpful.
I have received some good advice from people on here which has helped me greatly.
Letting one bad apple ruin it because someone turns a blind eye to their behaviour is not a healthy or adult way to behave.

siege,
I held my hands up in my post, saying I had blasted the mods. I do have great respect for you all, even if it doesn't seem like it. I have seen and yes, contributed, to some of the flaming threads. Sorry, but my natural instinct is that if someone is being flamed, being called achild and being ridiculed, just because their opinion differs, I tend to stand up for someone if I feel it is injust.

I will say my post should have brought me a warning. in fact, I will ask if you can give me one now. For the warning to work though, which you say hasn't happened with people in the past, you need to carry out any threat of banning if the problem continues.

In which case, either I will have to be more thoughtful about my posts, or if not, I would be banned. Start doing this for a while, name people that have been warned or banned. Aparet from that member, I feel you would get lots of posts backing you up. You will then see how much respect you do all get. Maybe start one in off topic with my name as being given a warning.

Yes, some members have been here for years, but it shouldn't mean that new members can be abused and told that is the way the older members are. That has happened I'm afraid. New people can be a pain, not using search features, reading the rules properly etc. Some are time wasters and secret grabbers. Others are just new. Weren't we all and didn't we take a while to understand the nuances of the boards?

Don't give up being a mod. Your efforts and work are mainly not noticed, but only because it is behind the scenes. A period of zero tolerance would clear up the boards. At least, for a while.

seige wrote:So, here we are: almost full-circle. I'm getting to the point of chucking in my Moderator crown again.

If you remember, I volunteered to become a moderator on a trial basis the last time there was an issue with moderator coverage but you didn't reply to my offer.

I'm chained to the PC 6 days a week for long periods (sometimes overnight) and regardless of what I might personally think of certain people, I would moderate like a referee based entirely on the a strict but compassionate interpretation of the rules and nothing but the rules of the forum - stating those being violated in the rare cases when moderation is required. I'm also in favour of a policy of "having a quiet word" with individuals about their behaviour, with acting publicly a last resort.

If you're overworked, I'm still willing to give it a go. Mandrake is away again and the other mods pop in only occasionally, so it makes sense to use an extra pair of willing eyeballs.

Could we not have something so you can only sign up on one day of the month e.g like the 1st of the month new people can sign up to the forums but the rest of the month theres a lock on the sign up process. That way spammers and people looking for secrets wont be bothered to wait until the 1st of the month they will just go elsewhere. Also anyone genuinly intersted in signing up will have to look around the forums and the rules until it reaches the first of the month then they can sign up. Or even twice a month if that's too long what do others think of this?. Then the mods will only have to keep a eye on the rest of us and they wont need to look through endless threads of spam and secret hunters except once a month. I dont think there will be many spammers or secret hunters willing to wait until the sign up day either they will just clear off do it somewhere else and forget about us.

We seem to be all blaming the newbie here. Dam newbies coming in ask our tricks are done etc, but I don’t think that is the whole of the problem if I understand what Seige is saying. I t is all of us that have let the community sink in to lower depths of uncalled for remarks , post being edited and warnings being issued. It is easy to blame the new guy but maybe we should look out ourselves.

There is a catalyst for insults and nasty remarks. Only threads that this person is involved in degenerate into slanging matches. Just look if you don't believe me.
Seige defends this rulebreaking troublemaker for whatever reason he has.
It's like someone making excuses for an unruly child who is a little horror.

It reminds me of a pub I went into once where this chap was being abusive and violent towards people, smashing glasses on the floor. When someone complained to the landlord, they said it was ok as he was their mate. Same kind of situation.

Similar situation is happening here with Seige and Mark Lewis.
The 'brown nosing' comment someone made hit home too hard.

To eradicate problems, make sure that everyone, and I mean EVERYONE sticks to the rules that have been layed out. Don't make exceptions for one person for personal reasons.
It's unfair on the rest of us.

Freddie

I am uncertain of why you think I would have any reason to 'suck up' to Mark Lewis.

Mark's never done me any harm, and I personally speak as I find.

Whatever your personal issues are with Mark, would you keep them PERSONAL?

I find myself in a position of not needing to justify myself, although it would seem you deem it fit to find justification as to why I personally do not find Mark as intolerable as the rest of you.

I have no loyalties, no debts, and certainly no favours owed to Mark, and there's no other reason other than personal respect why I give him respect back.

I suggest, Freddie, that you sooth your itch with Mark. I won't be forced into changing my opinion of him by being put under pressure to do so.

As I said, Mark is like a bee... productive, useful and generally fine. Until you antagonise them, in which case—they sting.

I am NOT a 'pub landlord' here... I'm just in the firing line.

Mark has been a member here for some time, and is a well respected member of the more mature and mindful magic community. What he did in his post was to make the public aware of his new products—no more.

I did actually almost move his post initially, and consider giving Mark a ticking off, but after the first initial 'Mark-hater' appearing, I thought it may be actually education to the ignorant out there to watch what happened. And of course, predictibly, the regular anti-Lewis crowd stepped in without thought or worry and stuck their collective oars in.

Your opinions are of course your own. But I'm comforted to know it's not me who's actually shown my true colours here.

My advice to Mark would be to take his knowledge elsewhere, as the grunts who seem to be intent on poking him with a stick just don't deserve the time of day.

Over and out.

The name of my dear nemesis and cohort has been invoked e.g. I must speak up...

I've known Mark via these forums for well over five years now and yes, he can be a royal pain in the tukkis. He loves dominating forums if he's allowed to, tossing all matter of decorum to the side. At the same time, Mark can be a source for some sound information... that is, if you are willing to wade through some of the horse puckey that will be more than evident as you trudge through some of his posts.

Yes, I have run road blocks many times when it comes to Mark coming into a forum; he and Opie Houston and a few others are known for taking over things... a look at the Mental-list or for that matter Danny Hustle's Buskers forum will prove this true. But, once accepted and once "respected" the odes tend to lessen and, at least in the case of the Danny Hustle group, things wind down a bit... in fact, I've seen very little of the usual antics on this forum and for that I'm most grateful.

Bottom line is, Mark has a hobby when it comes to stirring mischief and being tossed off forums only to sneak in as someone new and do it again... As to how to deal with him?

Well, as one of my favorite authors said long ago about New Age Spirituality... just take it all with a small Ukrainian Salt Mine...

well if everyones being brutally honest then i'll stick my neb in too....


we (the Mods) of this board are aware that Mark Lewis can be a bit of an *rse with his attitude.. personally i find the mans posts hilarious but maybe thats just me. but one of the reasons i have no problems with the man is if you actually read what he says (not just the rants against different races..locations.. or just plain anything) then you can find a lot of wisdom.

(now this is the bit thats going to get me flamed).. personally id rather there were more like Mark on here for he can teach a lot of things (ok maybe not people skills but you get the idea) because to be quite frank (or anyother person) there are a lot of people on here (and i include myself in this) who are no better than the "how do i do this for free..." type poster and although they have been member for a long time or made x amount of posts they contribute NOTHING and just see the place as something to do when bored.

as in any community there will be people you like and people you dont.. the way you deal with it is what matters. If you dont like what someone says or does then send a PM rather than duelling it out on the boards. I was guilty of this a while ago which some of the older members may recall but now i dont see the point... it does absolutely nothing for the board and just makes you look like an arguementative tit!

I havent been very active on the board for a while due to job and family pressures and i hold my hand up to say i havent been "modding" as much as i used to but to be honest i look over the new posts (by old members as well as new) and think.. "whats the point?.. if i delete this or lock this then someone is just going to stir the same s*** up again in a couple of days" this used to be a fun place with close ties between members but now its evolved into something different.. yes there are still ties but now it seems to be degenerating into "us and them". Maybe its because its grown a lot in size since i joined but its not like it used to be.


However if the majority of members want the moderation to be stricter in all cases and the rules to be enforced to the letter then we're just as well closing the board right now and just leaving it as a library for the old posts cos i can gaurantee most of the membership would be banned by now

Seige,

I have no personal gripe with Lewis as I don't know him, but I've have found him to be deliberately insulting, arrogant and condescending for no other reason than to cause trouble. I can give worse than he can, but have refrained from doing so as I respect this forum and the people on it.

If someone else sold things without permission then they would be chastised. I wanted to sell a booklet on here but wasn't allowed as per the forum rules which I respected. If I placed an ad regardless I would have been ticked off or banned.

I do wonder why you are do defensive of Lewis, please don't take this the wrong way, but has NUMS ever sold his books? If so that would explain a lot.
It seems that he insults people and you ignore it but if someone responds equally you jump to his defence. This is not fair on people.

As you said for me to get over any "personal" gripes I have with him, please put your professional ones aside.

I love winning

Freddie, whatever your gripes are, don't bring me into it. If Mark's chosen to give you an earbashing, so be it.

Nuff said.

Now go get a haircut, have a beer, and stop being such a pillock.

My noble lordship,

I don’t think the man seige is defending Mr Lewis because he once sold the “Long and short of it” that’s just business isn’t it? I mean shops of certain religious beliefs sell ham…

I am actually a Mark fan, maybe it is because we are both called Mark or that we both like a good svengali routine. But lets face it if we see Mark’s name as the last person who posted most of us will read it. It is fine not to like certain people on a forum it was said above. A couple of people here I don’t care for as much as I can say you probably don’t that. one big happy family thing is a myth and we all know it.

But don’t you see you saying the Mod squad epically Seige is showing favouritism to Lewis is just doing what Lewis is doing but in not such an insulting way. The man makes things far more colourful round here don’t he. In not so many words Freddie it’s a case of “Dear kettle love pot” I feel , and no I don’t wish to enter a battle of wits with you over this , but its just my two cents worth.

This thread goes to show that this forums doesn't have enough mods. Everyone will have there favourites, some people will like member XYZ and others want him banned. This applies to moderators as well. With a wide variety of people moderating the forum the differences would somewhat balance out.

On top of that Seige is complaining of too much work, and he seems justified in doing so. It seems odd that someone like Tomo would offer to moderate and not be taken up on it.