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I've been reading and practicing the overhand shuffle. It seems a lot easier to hide the hindu shuffle of the selected card to the top of the deck than an injog and overhand shuffle of the selected card to the top. It seems so obvious that you're doing a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch injog on top of the selected card when the spectator returns the card to the other half of the deck.

I have the RRTCM videos and I feel I'm missing something with the injog. Will it just be more natural after more practice? Or do you guys just do it during some sort of misdirection. It just seems really hard if the spectator is just looking at your hands. But then you don't see hindu shuffle that often either, I've only seen this shuffle after getting into magic.

Any thoughts?

BTW, please delete this post if I'm revealing to much. Thanks.

The trick with the injog i find is to shuffle the whole deck fairly sloppily. After injoging a card i normally outjog a small packet then back to the middle outjog a few more then back to the middle and out again. Having the deck in a bit of a mess gives plenty of time to pick up on the joged card and catch a b***k. (then pause for a minute with squared deck before executing double undercut ect.)

If this is done fairly rapidly it will provide plenty of cover. Once you can do this without looking at the cards, Just looking at/talking to your spectator will provide any misdirection needed.

majs wrote: It seems so obvious that you're doing a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch injog on top of the selected card when the spectator returns the card to the other half of the deck.

When I do my injog, it's prob close to a full inch - I just casually shuffle really sloppily - I ain't been caught out yet . It only seems obvious to you 'cos you can see the injog and it appears to stand out like a sore thumb.
This reminds me of when I first learnt the "backslip force" and I needed to try it out on someone - step forward my missus I thought I'd never get away with it, as it was obvious what I was doing. After about 10-15 "backslips" she admitted that she couldn't see a thing and because of this, it's now one of my favourite sleights

Try to view things from the spec's point of view and remember that most of them won't suspect a thing just because your shuffle isn't all neat and tidy

I, too, have never been caught out with an injogged card. Like moonbeam said, an intentionally sloppy shuffle will cover it quite nicely!

I tend to use the Hindu shuffle more than the injog, but both are superb. Try the pass as well, and it can be usefeul to mix the ways you control cards to the top. You should practice having several utilities in your arsenal.

I agree with everybody that's already answered. Use a sloppy shuffle, DON'T look at the deck while shuffling. Talk to the spec/s looking at them. What I also do is shuffling 3 or more cards flush before the injog. That misleads a great deal.

I am not particularly fond of the double undercut. After shuffling I find it a bit strange to change the grip just to cut the deck. I usually just grab the pack with the same fingers and in the same moment as squaring the deck. Daryl does it in his Encyclopedia and I think it looks just fine.

It's amazing what you can get away with. I've performed the injog shuffle for years and never been caught out.. yet!

If you PRACTICE your technique, it's possible to do an injog overhand and close the injog almost as soon as it happens, leaving the cards square as you have them in your hand.

As I said in 'the other' shuffle post recently, the position of your receiving hand during your normal overhand shuffle is critical to facilitating moves—such as this one. The pinky is your stealth weapon here.

And no, never look at the cards.

I can't stress enough that you should never 'read a sleight, have a go, perform' in these situations. These moves take a long time to practice before they appear fluid enough to perform in the real world.

The problem with performing an under-practiced sleight to someone is that you risk them seeing exactly what you're doing.

You should, for instance, be able to perform an overhand jog shuffle without looking at all, and without pausing. That way, it looks like a genuine shuffle.

It's also worthwhile wait until you've further read the book, as you will learn about valuable additional moves—such as transferring breaks—which will fit in nicely with what you're doing.

And as for the Hindu shuffle, it's a perfectly good shuffle and deserves a look. The fact it looks unnatural to a spectator is one of it's virtues, I believe... in fact, when performing it, rather than announce it as a 'shuffle', I announce it as a series of small cuts. That way, the spectator can see the small cuts and actually follow how well it's mixing the cards.

It's all experience, and I encourage you to just stick at it and practice, rather than expecting the RRTCM to turn you into a skilled card magician overnight. It all comes with time, and it's totally natural that you're getting frustrated. I've read and re-read that book umpteen times over the past goodness knows how many years, and there's always a refinement or lesson to be learned.

In magic, you must consider, you are ALWAYS going to be a pupil. Every day is a schoolday. A bit like life

seige wrote:If you PRACTICE your technique, it's possible to do an injog overhand and close the injog almost as soon as it happens, leaving the cards square as you have them in your hand.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean that you injog and close it while shuffling and hence shuffle over the not injogged but now controlled card? Or do you mean my way of doing it: in the action of squaring the deck you control the injog and cut in the same action? Sorry for being so thick!

What I am saying is, during the shuffle, you can injog and immediately catch a break, so the injog is swapped for a break DURING the shuffle, not at the end.

However, it's totally uneccessary, as mentioned, as an overhand shuffle is naturally sloppy. With time, you'll gain enough confidence to get your injogs smaller.

And then, you'll be doing all sorts of things, like controlling multiple cards with multiple in/outjogs

I tend to use the hindu control most of the time although might just the injog now and again, the more I work at it, the better I can get it to look and the smaller the injog has to be, practice is the key.

Always use a little misdirection when doing a dodgey shuffle, a little friendly chatter works a treat.

seige wrote:What I am saying is, during the shuffle, you can injog and immediately catch a break, so the injog is swapped for a break DURING the shuffle, not at the end.

Ah, ok. I understood right then. Thanks.

seige wrote:And then, you'll be doing all sorts of things, like controlling multiple cards with multiple in/outjogs

Oyeah!

I think this thread sums up what I as a newcomer feel - and I guess is mirrored in all but the most personally confident. I have just finished RRTCM on my first read through. I was very good, making sure I understood each chapter before moving on. Some I found easier than others; the "Pass" still has me quite confused and my DL is neither convincing nor consistent. But I am only capable of making the cards move as they are supposed to, not yet capable of making that look smooth and natural.

My point (and yes there is one) is that at this stage of my learning process I have taken the step from spectator to initiate. As a spectator you watch magicians, either live or on the television and are 'amazed' by the effects they show you. As an initiate you learn that startling effects can be performed using a few 'simple' moves - there are effects at the end of Chapter 1 of RRTCM which can be performed "merely"(!) using overhand shuffle controls. Note: By 'simple' I mean easily explained and understood in a few pages of text, not easily learnt and perfected.

However your spectator brain does not just go away and after watching your first laughable attempts at an effect using your new found knowledge, your spectator brain convinces you that there must be more to it because there is no way that even the most naive four year old would be convinced that there was 'magic happening'.

This is good in one way as it means you know you are not yet ready to go public and therefore are not likely to ruin an effect by a cack-handed performance. However at some stage I will have to convince myself that I can dazzle and astound with the best of them (!) otherwise I am just learning a presentational skill for the hell of it rather than to perform. That confidence just feels a long way off and is quite daunting, but I guess it is all a matter of practise, practise and a bit more practise and can only advise others to do the same.

Sorry for the rambling post.

Richard

jacko wrote:I think this thread sums up what I as a newcomer feel - and I guess is mirrored in all but the most personally confident. I have just finished RRTCM on my first read through. I was very good, making sure I understood each chapter before moving on.

How long did it take you? I've had it for 3 months and I have just worked through a small bit.

magicforfun wrote:

jacko wrote:I think this thread sums up what I as a newcomer feel - and I guess is mirrored in all but the most personally confident. I have just finished RRTCM on my first read through. I was very good, making sure I understood each chapter before moving on.

How long did it take you? I've had it for 3 months and I have just worked through a small bit.

About 3 1/2 months. But I did get a bit of a head start as I had three weeks leave when I first bought it and hit it pretty hard.

Richard