talkmagic.co.uk

It is pretty much unanimously agreed upon here that pirating magic products is wrong, and the offenders should be strung up by their nether regions.
Having said this, if we are honest, how many of us hasn't watched a copy of a film on dvd, or had a friend record one of their CD's that you like, or even create a mix tape of music in an attempt to woo your hearts desire .

I used to love making mix tapes when I was at school, and have never felt any guilt about it (in some respects, as this was pre-internet, it was almost an accepted practice), but the idea of pirating magic products seems completely wrong.
Why is this? Is it because magic creators are the 'little guy' and the big record companies are the big bad corporations, or because magic is closer to my heart and I feel the need to protect it?

Or perhaps none of you have ever done anything of the sort, and I am the official 'evil talkmagic mix tape maker' who needs a good telling off?

AndyRegs in Doing Something Illegal And Announcing It To The World Shocker!

you're totally right though [he says casually turning on his bittorrent]. but there's so much little stuff that it applies to that no one ever thinks about at all, like lending someone a book, you wouldn't hesitate to let your mum read your copy of the latest best selling book about relgious conspiracy, but it would actually be illegal. meh.....

we've all done it. many of us still do

it's just a case of s**t happens!

Such music piracy can, and often does, create fans of an artist which a lot of the time translates into ticket sales for their live gigs which is where artists earn the majority of their income.

There is no such thing for magicians, save for drawing people to their lectures; but these are usually few and far between and the performer makes little money with these anyway.

So yes, there is a sense of the magician being the little guy - but ultimately, piracy is wrong when it comes to any art.

Cardza wrote:Such music piracy can, and often does, create fans of an artist which a lot of the time translates into ticket sales for their live gigs which is where artists earn the majority of their income.

Um, ticket sales account for barely any of an artists income. It's extremely difficult to sell 25 million tickets on a several tours. But an artist can sell 100 million albums in a week if they're top notch.

monker59 wrote:

Cardza wrote:Such music piracy can, and often does, create fans of an artist which a lot of the time translates into ticket sales for their live gigs which is where artists earn the majority of their income.

Um, ticket sales account for barely any of an artists income. It's extremely difficult to sell 25 million tickets on a several tours. But an artist can sell 100 million albums in a week if they're top notch.

Firstly, if you're selling that many albums you're going to sell a lot of tickets. (And 100 million albums in a week?! Seriously, go and look for an album which has gone platinum three hundred times over - and then some - in seven days.)

Secondly, I speak from what artists have said: in print and in person.

Thirdly, look at the figures: from the CD price you have to deduct the profit the shop selling it is making; the production of the CD (pennies, but it all counts), advertising and marketing, the label's share, and what's left has to be divided amongst the band members.

Your typical CD is between eight and ten quid - which doesn't leave a lot at the end. They may sell more CDs than tickets, but the real money is in the gigs.

Not to mention the fees the band's management incurs, publicity - staff across the board. I read that most bands make, on the average, 41 cents per cd. 41 cents from $15. Hardly a massive profit (though the number does get nice if you sell a few million albums).

Look at downloadable mp3's - a 99 cent track is purchased. Typically, 79 cents gos to the RIAA - the credit card company that handles the transactions gets 5 cents and the label and band get to split the remaining 15 cents.

Monker, ticket sales and merchandising account for more of an artist's income than cd's do - unless of course you're a multi-million album seller.

monker59 wrote:

Cardza wrote:Such music piracy can, and often does, create fans of an artist which a lot of the time translates into ticket sales for their live gigs which is where artists earn the majority of their income.

Um, ticket sales account for barely any of an artists income. It's extremely difficult to sell 25 million tickets on a several tours. But an artist can sell 100 million albums in a week if they're top notch.

http://www.retrodawg.com/albums_worldwide.htm

The biggest selling album of ALL TIME 'only' sold 54 million copies.
Where on earth do you get your information from?
Not so hot on the old Wikepedia today, are you? ...

So its us sticking up for the little guy. So is it ok to pirate david copperield material? or david blaines? They dont need the cash, and get paid a good deal of money for their shows.
The point I'm making here, is that are we acting like hypocrites. We dont like magic being pirated, but metallica didnt like their material being pirated either.
The only time I have come accross pirate material was some banachek dvd's off ebay. I sent them back for a refund (anyone who has had dealing with ebay will know that there is little else you can do as they are useless) not because I was concerned that banachek needed the cash, but becasue I wanted the real deal for my collection, and expected to get what I thought I was paying for.

Personally I don't care if I watch a pirate movie or somone gives me a copied music cd because I don't care much for it but magic on the otherhand I do care because I have respect for magic as an art. Oh and on the otherhand Tom cruise,Mel Gibson, Bradd Pitt, Robbie Williams,U2,Elton John are all practicly billionaires where as most magic creators are only just making a semi-good living.

Lord Freddie wrote:
Not so hot on the old Wikepedia today, are you? ...

haha!

i personally am not a big fan of pirate movies. i love film, and i love seeing it in the cinema and buying it on DVD.

i love downloading music. always get the latest tracks find new bands etc.

i don't like pirate magic. i used to, but i have grown to dislike it as i found it to be shoddy, often in correct and generally wrong.

but piracy is around us and always will be.

Personally I don't care if I watch a pirate movie or somone gives me a copied music cd because I don't care much for it but magic on the otherhand I do care because I have respect for magic as an art. Oh and on the otherhand Tom cruise,Mel Gibson, Bradd Pitt, Robbie Williams,U2,Elton John are all practicly billionaires where as most magic creators are only just making a semi-good living.

But does this make it right. There are people who are passionate about film. And metallica did not like having their material pirated just like us magicinas. But they were painted in a bad light for trying to combat it.

Im not having a go, it just interests me to see where we end up if we follow what we believe to its logical conclusion (see 'eating babies' thread). Dont we often ignore the obvious in order to feel less guilt about what we do. And to make matters worse, we often get on our soap boxes and berate people for doing things that we ourselves are doing (hey, you only have to look at politicians, judges and priests to see that).

By they way, if the magician is the 'little guy' and the film company makes too much money anyway...would you watch a pirate copy of a film with andy nyman in it?

Despite one or two opinions to the contrary, we know we live in the real world, we know piracy goes on, and we know a lot of stuff like this is traded on the quiet via contact here and on other discussion forums. This doesn't make it right of course but it also doesn't mean we're on a permanent crusade to change the world. All we can do is to make sure it isn't done in the open areas of the Forum and to make sure members and visitors know we don't condone or support copying and/or piracy. In effect it’s a matter or personal conscience. If someone’s content with copied stuff and knowing the creator of the work is being refused his proper pay for it then that’s something they can deal with themselves. I guess that if that same person developed a new piece of magic and went to the trouble of spending time and money in researching, preparing and releasing it for sale, they wouldn’t be too chuffed to find some thieving oik running off dozens of pirate copies and making a lot of money out of it.

The sort of people that buy DVD's of films off some dodgy bloke in the market, which have been filmed on someones phone with booming audio and indistinguishable pictures are the sort who don't want to watch and enjoy a film but to boast they've "seen it".
This is an age where quality does not matter, just people's obsession with what is "cheapest".
These kind of people get what they deserve.

Just because a group of people do it, doesnt make it right... and doesnt make it legal.

The fact of the matter is that its illegal and unethical.




[finding more and more people I dont have to help out on forums.]