talkmagic.co.uk

I apologise if this is not considered the correct area, but I can't really see where else such a post would fit. Anyhow, I've also posted this on another forum, but am curious as to the views of those here as well.

Hello there,

I'd like to get this out of the way now, and say that I have never before studied the Tarot or been in possession of a Tarot deck. You may wish to know that now, before my blinding ingnorance regarding the subject shines through in this post.

However, I am very much interested in the more, I suppose, 'esoteric' side of our art. As such, I have recently been looking at various Tarot decks online and am coming to the point where I would like to purchase one, but, quite simply, have no idea where to start. The cards I have been browsing through are those listed at the following address:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/

There are some truly beautiful decks listed at the above website, but, as I said, I don't really know where I should start. Should I order a deck that I love the look of, or should I first go for one that contains 'beginner' instructions so as to familiarise myself with the Tarot? Alternatively, would it be wise to order both a 'beginner' deck and one that is, maybe, aimed at the more advanced students, but that looks particularly attractive?

The reason I am asking is that I have found some beautiful decks, but am wondering if I would have trouble learning the readings and history of the Tarot if I were to jump in with such a deck.

The two decks I particularly like the look of are the following:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/soprafino/
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/ancient-lombardy/

I simply love the neoclassical and Renaissance-style artwork on the above decks but am wondering if, as the above cards do not have English meanings or, in the case of the former, English instructions, I would struggle to make use of the decks. I would, however, love to use the above or similar decks, but have not yet found any others that suit my tastes, other than the Golden Tarot:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/golden/

This has a similar style of artwork, but I do not find the cards themselves quite so appealing. I believe that the set includes English instructions as well, which would be rather useful, considering my astounding lack of knowledge on the Tarot.

I suppose the point of this post is for me to ask if you have any recommendations for Tarot decks that you feel may suit my favoured style or ability (or, even, lack thereof). As I said; I love the Italian neoclassical and Renaissance-style designs of the cards, but also like the medieval English or European-styled cards. Unfortunately, however, I have not been able to find any such styled cards.

I apologise, both for my ignorance and the rather convoluted phrasing of this post. It was made after very little sleep and a great deal of work, under such circumstances I tend to ramble and, well, spout a great deal of rubbish. I simply hope you were able to make sense of the above.

If you have any recommendations or suggestions, I would be honoured to hear them.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read through this relative mess of words.

Regards,
Harry.

P.S. Just an afterthought, but if any of you have seen the television series 'Carnivàle' and have recognised the Tarot cards displayed during the opening sequence or during the readings, I'd love to know what they are. Unfortunately, however, I am presuming they are a custom or unpublished deck. Still, I do love the style and design of those cards.

There's a good range of Tarot here:
http://www.cards4magic.co.uk/acatalog/T ... ories.html

There were one or two recent mentions of Tarot cards etc on TM, check out your local 'The Works' as they're selling two sets of cards with instruction books and one with an instructional DVD, each for £5.99. The cards aren't great but will serve for practice. Like you I've never really got into these things and I'm still apprehensive, but the reassuring news form a previous book was basically whatever you feel is the meaning of each card is probably as accurate as anyone else's. Gut instinct is significant.

For the beginning student, I'd probably suggest the Rider-Waite deck, as all of the symbolism is generally accepted as being intact.

Many other decks, nice as they may look, have been essentially bastardised beyond belief, and may prove all the more difficult to learn as a result.

EDIT: D'uh - would have been helpful if I'd had added a link for you too : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rider-Waite_tarot_deck

I wasn't expecting so many responses so quickly - thank you!

beeno, I've browsed through that page, and numerous others, and have found some exquisite decks. The majority of listed decks can, however, be bought for slightly less on Amazon or dealers listed via the product pages. I found this to be rather useful, as it provided reviews on the decks and material included, and also gave links to shops offering more decks, books, etc.

Mandrake, thank you! I must have missed that post. I'll be sure to visit The Works though - I forgot about their range of 'new age' and esoteric material. Their prices tend to be excellent as well.

Robert, similarly, thank you. The responses from the other forum in which I posted this topic, primarily from working mentalists or readers, suggested the same, in that I should purchase, study and use the Rider-Waite Tarot. Then, perchance I still feel the need, should I progress onto a more appealing deck.

Something I did not consider, but was fortunately brough up by those on the other forum, was that I should be sure to use a deck suitable for the setting in which I plan to offer readings, and those whom I wish to read. For example, nudity and other such imagery would be completely inappropriate for, say, family environments, but would not be such a problem in private settings.

Anyhow; I will, I think, be firstly going for a Rider-Waite deck and whatever I can dig up in The Works. From there I can learn and become more accustomed to the cards, my own readings and the reactions of sitters. As stated, if I still feel the need, I can then move on to maybe a more obscure, 'advanced' or intuitive deck, thus allowing me to, as you say Mandrake, focus more on my gut instinct rather than a set of predetermined repsonses.

Again; thank you all for your advice. Your insights and suggestions are immensely useful.

Harry.

Probably the best[1] tarot deck series is the classic Rider Waite Tarot.

The classic Pamela Coleman Smith pictures have a lovely desolate feel to them, and plenty of esoteric detail. Very "Dennis wheatley"

Unlike some you've listed, beautiful as they are, the Rider Waite's minor arcana also has individual pictures for each card, rather than just the number of swords, wands, etc. These can help as an aide memoir for a reader just starting out, but also act as a powerful convincer when performing clairvoyance effects because you can gradually fill in the detail for the spectator. I like to have the deck shuffled, cut and some cards taken, which I then begin to "receive". If you can already say roughly what the cards will foretell before you've even seen them, isn't this what the real thing would (should?) do?

The Rider Waite series is also relatively cheap and hard wearing. All the usual beginners books (did you know there's a "For Dummies" on Tarot?) seem to use Rider Waite too.

I used to use 1JJ Swiss Tarot, but I never really liked the designs. nowadays, I have a pocket Rider Waite deck I carry around with me (44x74mm) as well as a standard deck (69x118mm, which is just too big to overhand shuffle). When the Card Collection get more stock in, I'll be getting the poker sized version because my mini deck is a bit knackered, and I just like the idea of using a poker sized Rider Waite deck.

[1] insert your own definition here, folks!

i really like the oddness and (ok, one way back design for sneaky purposes) of the Esoterico deck (from cards4magic), you'll have to brush up yer spanish though...

other than that, www.blackhart.co.uk offer some nice ones...and his tarot mat is superb...

Tomo wrote:These can help as an aide memoir for a reader just starting out, but also act as a powerful convincer when performing clairvoyance effects because you can gradually fill in the detail for the spectator.

An excellent point; thank you. I can see such images being particularly useful for those like myself, with such a poor memory and current lack of knowledge of the cards.

I think, to start with, I will be predominantly using the Tarot cards as a way of supporting cold readings in more private settings, rather than for more performance-orientated pieces. I do, however, plan to practice some rather devilish routines with the cards as well, although at a later stage. I think that this may be a wise move, as it would allow me to familiarise myself with the Tarot, and also maybe provide the opportunity to put into use a more striking or visual deck.

Tomo wrote:I like to have the deck shuffled, cut and some cards taken, which I then begin to "receive". If you can already say roughly what the cards will foretell before you've even seen them, isn't this what the real thing would (should?) do?

Another excellent point. I can imagine such a performance as being either particularly effective or entertaining. I suppose which would depend on the way in which you present it. I think a similar styled routine would suit my performing persona, but performed in the more serious or 'darker'(?) manner.

On a side note, Jon, I'm looking forward to seeing Naked Mentalism published. The comments I have read so far sound very promising.

abraxus wrote:i really like the oddness and (ok, one way back design for sneaky purposes) of the Esoterico deck (from cards4magic), you'll have to brush up yer spanish though...

other than that, www.blackhart.co.uk offer some nice ones...and his tarot mat is superb...

I wasn't aware of the one-way back design on the Esoterico deck. Several sneaky uses are already coming to mind

Black Hart offers some excellent products, but I've not yet had the experience of purchasing any of his Tarot-related items. Do you, or anybody else, for that matter, have any opinions regarding his Tarot Made Easy course? The deck included is, I think, a standard Marseilles-styled deck. I would presume so, but do these have similar imagery to the Rider-Waite deck, or at least similar interpretations? I don't wish to become over-inundated with material and varying interpretations to begin with, but the course does look rather interesting.

The Telltale Tarot deck looks nice too. I can think of numerous applications and uses for a marked Tarot deck, but, as I said, I will most likely wait until I am more familiar and accustomed to the Tarot before thinking about performing Tarot-based or related effects.

Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions. It's quite fascinating to see all of your opinions.

Harry.

i've got got his course, but i suppose the major selling point for Mr. Harts stuff is that he makes his living as a reader and bizarre-magick type person...

definately wearing the mantle/cowl of the late great Cameron in my opinion...

The Telltale Tarot deck (or the Juggler deck as they're properly known) are actually quite an ugly looking set of cards (IMHO). I honestly can't believe that no-one has yet made a set of marked tarot (major arcana at least) that is nice to look at. A marked set of Rider Waite would have me clicking the "Buy It Now" button without hesitation!

If you e-mail Keith Hart at Black Hart he'll be very happy to tell you all about his range of items.

Harry Truman wrote:

Tomo wrote:I like to have the deck shuffled, cut and some cards taken, which I then begin to "receive". If you can already say roughly what the cards will foretell before you've even seen them, isn't this what the real thing would (should?) do?

Another excellent point. I can imagine such a performance as being either particularly effective or entertaining. I suppose which would depend on the way in which you present it. I think a similar styled routine would suit my performing persona, but performed in the more serious or 'darker'(?) manner.

I used to take my chances with the "read" of the cards before seeing them, but I've been working on a technique this weekend to make your predictions very much more reliable. You can then spend less time thinking and more on dressing the effect.

Harry Truman wrote:On a side note, Jon, I'm looking forward to seeing Naked Mentalism published. The comments I have read so far sound very promising.

Cheers mate, it's been frightening to think it's not even published yet, but one beta tester really wanted to trail it, I was a bit drunk and, well, it can't do any harm at this stage, can it...

themagicwand wrote:The Telltale Tarot deck (or the Juggler deck as they're properly known) are actually quite an ugly looking set of cards (IMHO). I honestly can't believe that no-one has yet made a set of marked tarot (major arcana at least) that is nice to look at. A marked set of Rider Waite would have me clicking the "Buy It Now" button without hesitation!

I've not yet had a chance to see the deck up close, so cannot really comment. That that I made earlier was made purely from the single face you can see in the picture on Keith's website. Unfortunately, however, the backs appear to, I suppose, out of place on a set of Tarot cards for my liking. They are far too reminiscent of standard playing card backs. The faces, on the other hand, look rather nice, from what I can make out from the photograph.

Thinking about it, it is rather surprising that there isn't an abundance of marked Tarot cards. Throughout my relatively brief searches and browsing, I think the Telltale Tarot is the only set of marked Tarot cards I have actually seen. One-way back designs seem to be more common, but, from what I have seen, are still quite rare.

I've managed to track down several comments regarding Mr. Hart's course elsewhere, and it sounds rather intriguing. I would definately agree with you, abraxus, in that he does seem to be following in the footsteps of Charles Cameron.

Regarding my choice; I think I will be ordering the deck marketed as the 'Original' Rider-Waite Tarot, as I think the slightly duller tone of the cards will keep people, particularly myself, focused more upon the meanings of the cards rather than the cards themselves. I'll allow myself time to study and experiment with the Tarot, and see where I go from there.

All of your views are both interesting and useful, so thank you again for the help.

Edit: Apologies Tomo, for I did not see your post when I began to type this response.

Tomo wrote:I used to take my chances with the "read" of the cards before seeing them, but I've been working on a technique this weekend to make your predictions very much more reliable. You can then spend less time thinking and more on dressing the effect.

That's always good! I have a method in mind that may be rather accurate, at least in the mind of the sitter, and that I can imagine playing quite well.

Tomo wrote:Cheers mate, it's been frightening to think it's not even published yet, but one beta tester really wanted to trail it, I was a bit drunk and, well, it can't do any harm at this stage, can it...

You're most welcome. It certainly doesn't seem to have done any harm, rather now there seem to be a number of others also eagerly awaiting its release.

Hello Harry

The 'tarot Made Easy' course has just been released as a separate item from our 'Psychic Reader's Kit'. It is a quick and easy way to get you reading tarot in a very short time - and earning money. No nonsense, no bull, nothing 'esoteric'. All of my readers use this system. The reason that I wrote this course (along with my rune course) was that any other tarot book (or rune book) I read was full of esoteric and irrelevant mumbo jumbo and would have taken an age and a lot of prolonged effort to learn.

Of course a knowledge of the tarot is essential for anyone performing in the 'Bizarre' genre. How can you use tarot cards in your effects without any knowledge of their 'meaning'?

The Spanish and Marseilles tarot are just about the most recognised of the tarot cards. The Rider Waite are also good cards, however I don't sell Rider Waite.

As I have said here before you get a 90-day money back guarantee with all of Black Artefacts products so that you or any other purchaser can try out the goods and if FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER you decide that you don't want to keep them you just send them back and we will refund the purchace price in full, no questions asked.

So, if you are thinking about buying the course then please do so and if you don't like it or think that it is not as described or even if you decide that you don't like the colour of the printing - I'll give you your money back!
There are many, many tarot decks around and you could spend a lifetime and a lot of money collecting decks. Don't get too bogged down in this before you dip your toe in the water. Think about your own performing style first, this will later lead to a decision about what deck works best for you.

BTW our 'Tell Tale Tarot' which is based on the Juggler deck comes with a couple of extras and a great effect called 'Meet The Reaper' which I wrote specifically to be performed with it. As far as I know the Juggler deck is the only marked tarot currently in production.

Anyway Harry, welcome to 'our world', have fun and remember that the 'entertainment' is what counts.

Keith Hart

Keith,

I wasn't aware that you were also a member here. Anyhow, thank you for taking the time to come and reply to this topic! I think you may have just convinced me in doing so

black hart wrote:The Spanish and Marseilles tarot are just about the most recognised of the tarot cards. The Rider Waite are also good cards, however I don't sell Rider Waite.

They certainly seem to be - the preconceived images I had before I began searching for Tarot decks were a mixture of those from the Marseilles deck, particularly the Magician, and those on the Rider-Waite.

black hart wrote:As I have said here before you get a 90-day money back guarantee with all of Black Artefacts products so that you or any other purchaser can try out the goods and if FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER you decide that you don't want to keep them you just send them back and we will refund the purchace price in full, no questions asked.

Whilst I will most likely not be required to use this, judging from past experiences, it is an incredibly generous offer.

I think I'll take a trip the my local The Works in the next couple of days, and see what I can pick up there. Depending on how long the material I can find there keeps me engaged, contrary to my previous post, I will most likely then order and take a look at the Tarot Made Easy course. From what I have read, it certainly seems not only like something that is designed for people like myself - the relative 'beginner' - but also something that, from which, aspects can be taken and utilised with other decks, performances, etc.

black hart wrote:Anyway Harry, welcome to 'our world', have fun and remember that the 'entertainment' is what counts.

Thank you, and I don't think I've read a more true statement.

Harry.