talkmagic.co.uk

hmmm - after my experience today a question has occured.

we all spend money on magic, some of us make oney on magic. i, personally, do both (though spend more than make unfortunately )

today however, i have started saving money using magic

yup - just about to start guitar lessons. the guy who is teaching me has a very high reputation, and I really could not have afforded the lessons. however he has known me and my card skills by reputation, and we struck a deal.

he is a keen gambler, be it 3 card monte, roulette, poker, e.t.c. hell - he gave me a tenner for showing him a couple of short cons - proposition bets!

basically - we are gonna do a trade - him giving me the top end lessons for free, and me teaching him the methods of card sharks - stacks, deals, cold decks, glimpses, crimps, mucking, e.t.c - the works!

think this is gonna be quite an experience!

just basically wondering whether you guys (and gals) ever do the same - that is, rather than doing it for money, save money and do a (kinda, sorta) "trade" so to speak?

I certainly think I have come off ok - and I bet he does as well

it's a win-win!

I'll perform for a weekend of room and board in tourist towns that could easily run me $1500 or more... Fair trade if you ask me.

Performing for a return would be fine. Trading secrets for a return would not sit well with me personally. I know you arent teaching him 'magic', but you are giving away methods used to create magic. And with many magicians framing their act around a gambling theme, isn't this exposure?

Blapsing_Beard wrote:he is a keen gambler

Hmm, would you feel okay arming this man with the ability to cheat people out of their money? Or is he simply interested in the art of sleight of hand?
Best of luck with the guitar, what style is it?

gonna be classical acoustic, and he is interested in the methods...if he uses them, odds are he shall get caught...ill be teaching him that

and whether it counts as exposure is only that of opinion. A magic tutor would charge money and teach those who are interested - would that be classed as exposure? He is effectively paying me - I named my fee - guitar lessons - so it shows he is genuinely interested . he is giving up his time and im getting about £120 worth

as for gambling routines, most gambling routines that I know of dont actually use any gambling sleights - though you say you do. "watch this bottom deal", when you actually deal from the top, and it shows how deceptive you are

the only gambling "routine" I do that actually uses gambling sleights is "watch me bottom deal the aces" and then i proceed to bottom deal the aces

so whether it classes as exposure, to someone who is effectively paying to be taught, is just a matter of opinions really.

either way I'm happy

I'm not having a go, so hopefully it doesnt sound as such.
You did mention crimps, stacks, deals etc. These are used in magic performances. And if you were to read any darwin ortiz material, you will notice that most of the sleights he uses are gambling sleights. Unfortunately, being more into the mental side of things rather than cards, his material is way out of my league.

Taking this to a more extreme scenario, if the guy used the skills you showed him to fleece somebody (and it could be proved that you alone were the one who gave him this knowledge), would you be also liable to legal processes as an accessory before the fact? Probably not but personally I wouldn't risk it, any 'skills' I have would only be passed on to other genuine magicians.

i would very much doubt that he would...i met him in my church group

he is a genuinely nice guy - and i will be warning him about the uses...i guess it comes down to morals in the end

i wouldnt class it as exposure...especially when you consider where alot of our sleights and moves came from in the first place...

phantom at the card table is an excellent read...

if a sensei teaches a student how to defend himself, and that student then murders an elk with those moves, is the sensei to blame i wonder?

"When facing a single tree, if you look at a single one of its red leaves, you will not see all the others. When the eye is not set on one leaf, and you face the tree with nothing at all in mind, any number of leaves are visible to the eye without limit. But if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there." (Takuan Soto)

Defo one to watch if you met him at a church group. And hehe Mucking
I say good luck to the beard and I shall see you on crime watch, And as mr Abraxus said most of our moves we "stole" from the cheats any hoot.

I dont see a problem with it. He is paying you guitar lessons to lersn this stuff, or vice versa.. no secrets are being freely traded..

you learn a skill you can use anywhere.. he learns a skill he cant really make use of except at a social gathering with friends, and being a church man.. if he steals off those he holds so close.. he will go to hell!!

You cant really use guitar skills anywhere. Only places that have guitars. Or you could play really mean air guitar like my brother and he is 32 :O

I would like to say one thing about this situation. I think it is great when we can barter services for other services. An agrarian society where money is non-existent is the only way to see who are the true successful people in the world. People can do anything with money but it is the things they are able to do physically is what establishes their role in a community. If the world could return to a society like this, I fell things would be much better for the people of the world!

*monker59 builds to the definitive moment of his rant only to find that no one is listening. He slunks off to his Anarchist social group without a word*

Anarchist social group, get it?

monker59 wrote:I would like to say one thing about this situation. I think it is great when we can barter services for other services. An agrarian society where money is non-existent is the only way to see who are the true successful people in the world. People can do anything with money but it is the things they are able to do physically is what establishes their role in a community. If the world could return to a society like this, I fell things would be much better for the people of the world!

*monker59 builds to the definitive moment of his rant only to find that no one is listening. He slunks off to his Anarchist social group without a word*

Anarchist social group, get it?

i enjoyed that lil speech

Thank you. I talk every other Thursdays at the local United States Communist Party meetings right before the main speaker of the night comes on.