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How do you tell what skill level you are?

i consider my self an AH = Amateur Hobbyist because i haven't been doin magic all that long and its a hobby to me... but how do i tell if i am actually a SH = Skilled Hobbyist.

is this just our own personal views of our own skill or is there certain kinds of tricks that you should know to classify you self as skill rather then an Amateur?

I think the main distinction is probably between 'amateur' and 'working' (professional). That is not to say that all 'workers' are necessarily better than amateurs. Dai Vernon was technically an amateur for example.
I will forever class myself as an amateur. If you look at the latin source for the word, it means “lover, devoted friend, devotee, enthusiastic pursuer of an objective”. That kind of sums it up for me. Its what I do for enjoyment and escapism away from my day job etc.
Skilled hobbyist just means that they are a bit more cocky .

My philosophy is that if a magician can execture a Pass undetected, he is one the road to becoming an expert magician.

My philosophy is that if a magician can execture a Pass undetected, he is one the road to becoming an expert magician.

Not all magic is done with cards however. And someone could perform a perfect pass, but still be an awful magician.

Correct. I was referring to card sleight of hand magic.

It still doesnt make you a good card magician. SOmeone can astound with a beautiful self working trick, or bore the pants off you with a technically knuckle busting routine.

You're right. I have actually seen some extremely boring knuckle-busters.

For me being a skilled magician is a combination of technical skill and presentation skill. One can be self taught the other can not. So for me your skill level is a combination of the two.

Presentational skill is also a huge factor. If an effect doesn't have that magic moment, there is no magic. Also, many routines' impact is increased by a suspensful moment during the climax. For example, the slow and deliberate turning over of a card.

Someone more famous than even Mark Lewis once said " a person is defined by their actions" (or something similar )

When it comes to a magician, I think that his or her reputation is defined by their audiences reactions

dat8962 wrote: When it comes to a magician, I think that his or her reputation is defined by their audiences reactions

To borrow a philosophical question about falling trees and ears, does magic even exist when there's no one there to witness it?

A fair question but don't we each sometimes experience some magic from only having our own company?

I know I do at times

I think to advance from being an amateur to being skilled, you have to figure out for yourself how to maximize the effectiveness of a trick. Someone could do something very well, but if they get nothing from an audience, they are still an amateur. When you get to a certain point where you are eliciting reactions of wonder and amazement based not only on your skill as a magician but also as a conversationalist, you have reached that next level. Being a magician isn't just about showing, it's about sharing.

When you get nothing from an audience you are a bad magician. Professionals sometimes flop and an amateur can provide an unbelievably good performance.

I think I see what you are getting at but you are confusing your terms.

Amateur and professional are different than skilled and semi skilled. I would also suspect that many good magicians are not good conversationist. I think that you mean performer?

Whenever someone defines performer and conversationalist separately I feel like they are splitting hairs. In my opinion, there's not much difference. If someone is talkative on stage but not off, they just might be one of those people who wants all the attention focused on them.