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Penn & Teller annoyed many in the Magic fraternity when then revealed how several tricks are done. Those revelations have not diminished the popularity or entertainment value of their act. Penn & Teller have demonstrated consistently that even though the public claims they want to know how a trick is done; they really don't care. They just want to be entertained by magic that is performed well. The audience may be curious immediately after seeing a trick because they are stunned and amazed at being fooled. If you actually attempt to explain the technical intricacies of an illusion to a layman they will quickly lose interest in your explanation.

All of the great modern illusions are patented by the inventors. Patents are public records easily available to anyone interested in looking it up on the US Patent website. Almost nobody bothers do so because we really don't want to know. For example, John Gaughn is the inventor of Copperfield's flying illusion. The Patent number is 5354238 and the apparatus is described in detail. Knowing how the mechanism works does not detract one iota from the magical impact of the effect.

David Copperfield summed it up best, "Magic is in the performance"

mrogi wrote:Knowing how the mechanism works does not detract one iota from the magical impact of the effect.

I have to respectfully disagree with that. On so many levels.

bananafish wrote:

mrogi wrote:Knowing how the mechanism works does not detract one iota from the magical impact of the effect.

I have to respectfully disagree with that. On so many levels.

Me too. Knowing breaks the spell.

I don;t care what anyone says - knowing the secret spoils the illusion! Even magicians are disapointed when they find out the secret to a trick that has fooled them, despite them thinking that the method is clever.

You aoso need to consider the YOU don't have the right to reveal someone elses work.

I agree that knowing the secret does spoil the effect.

However, in reply to the topics title. I don't think they are "sacred" if people, way back when when magic was "started" didn't share secrets to some degree, magic wouldn't be around today.

That's how I see it. However, youtube videos etc. are bad. Don't get me wrong, and revealling magic on TV, well a lot of the time they are grand stage illusions. Something which many magicians today don't seem to perform.

IMHO 'Sacred' would be in the sense of retaining them within the fraternity, only passing them on to those who will value them and treat them with the respect they deserve. Anything other than that would be exposure which, as has been said above and on many other threads here, only spoils it for the specs and all other performers. We can share with valid others but only as long as such things are ours to share. If in doubt, don't.

I think Mandrake has nailed the answer.

Techniques and skills have frequently been kept inside guilds and brotherhoods, probably since time immemorial.

These things are shared willingly with fellow masons, or tanners, or magicians, but are kept secret from outsiders.

The difference is that, unless you intend to build your own house, knowing the way to make an arch that won't collapse isn't really doing any harm to stone masons. Knowing a method almost invariably harms the feeling of magic.

Magic is largely dependant upon performance, but the secret is important too. I can still appreciate a good performance of a trick I know (or can figure out), but it simply isn't the same as one that surprises and/or baffles me.

The difference is that, for me, I can sometimes gain appreciation for an effect or act, because I understand the skill and practice that has gone into mastering it. To many lay people, the secret is all there is to it.

EDIT: There's more than one way to be a good performer. In magic, you can be merely adequate technically, but have fantastic presence, or otherwise engage and entertain people, while some skilful performers bore the pants off the audience!

The performer creates the magic...not vice versa. My uncle Louie palmed a card while performing a trick. It did not look magical to me; not because I know how to palm a card but because my uncle is sloppy. I saw the same trick performed by Ed Marlo and it still fries me. Knowing how a piano is constructed does not diminish my appreciation of Mozart when performed by a virtuoso.

IMHO, most magicians have an automatic reflex revulsion to exposure. In the present Information Age of instant mass communication, maintaining that kind of righteous indignation is pointless. Secrets are hard to keep these days. Magicians can no longer rely on the ignorance of the spectators. By becoming better performers, successful magicians have changed with the times and accepted the fact that they are facing a much more sophisticated and informed audience.

Houdini invented the The Substitution Trunk 90 years ago. The 'secret' is documented in many sources easily obtained at any public library. Even though I understand how the Sub Trunk illusion is done, I will always pay to watch the The Pendragons perform Metamorphosis. It leaves me flabbergasted every time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps40nsxdFWQ

Perhaps...

Truth of the matter is the MAGIC exists within YOU... if you are worried that someone knows how you do it then you aren't creating magic you are simply presenting a trick.

I've posted this before and others aside from me have stated the same thing (take a look at The Book of Haunted Magick for an example).

I have used a full color 4x6 photo in the L.A. Times exposing the Johnson Cigarette thru Quarter as a close-up mat when doing that very same effect, asking folks once I was done with the demonstration "How the hell such things could've been done with such a clunky piece of equipment?"

I did this at the Magic Castle no less and the majority of those present were dumbfounded by what I demonstrated... a series of manipulations that exploited the same as well as alternative methods around that particular piece.

In magic there is always more than one way of relieving the proverbial kitty kat of its hide. That is why I have ALWAYS found multiple ways of creating the same basic effect or alternative ways of employing the same "known" technology. This is what distinguishes the real "magician" from those that simply present the same "off the shelf" tricks that they believe everyone else in the business is doing.

There's an overpriced treatise on the market right now that claims to be the "Complete" workings of the famed Asrah Levitation. I'll lay money on it that it is nowhere close to complete in that the size of the tome defies said claims. Especially when you have people such as myself, that have worked with well over a dozen variations to that idea and principle, who could deliver an encyclopedic tome on the subject. But let's look at the "real world" just a bit closer.

During a Stage Hand Union strike in Las Vegas someone was distributing flyers that exposed many of the illusions seen in the Siegfried & Roy Show... based on the tens of millions of dollars a year they saw after that incident I'd have to say that it didn't hurt them in the least. After all, they are SHOWMEN... magic and the big kitty kats are just the tools they employ.

Blackstone (Jr. & Sr) had many situations in which the threads broke on their famed Floating Light Bulb... both would shrug and say, "Sorry folks, it's just a trick and sometimes the joke's on me..."

Did it hurt them?

No... not when Blackstone is nearly as synonymous a name with magic as Houdini.

Fact of the matter is if you are a solid and competent ENTERTAINER the fact that people are aware of some of the basic principles around an effect will not hurt you in the least. Just look at how many Mentalist, for an example, still get away with using techniques EXPOSED ON A REGULAR BASIS by all the magicians, skeptics and self-made debunkers out there.

But that's different! Comes the claims of the ardent cynic.

How's that? You are still deliberately hinting at and tipping methods used by your fellow students of the legerdemain; techniques that many of us depend upon for making a living.

How is tipping, hinting at or even explaining the Barnum, Forer and other principles to the laity any different from showing someone how to use a TT or Dove Harness?

If you stop worrying about "Exposure" and simply focus on making your own act the best it can possibly be; learning EVERYTHING you can about each effect, related principles and applications so that you become so well versed and empowered around each of those effects/principles that nothing can stop you from replicating your act anywhere at any time... all this exposure c*** (not the best) will fall to the whey-side and not affect you in the least.

This is not a theory it is proven fact; a truth that you will hear told by numerous "professionals" and serious students of this craft.

No, I'm not saying that we can freely put the information out there. I am well rooted in my position on this front and the fact that too much information is too readily available now days and too few novices are learning the value of having to EARN their chops, as it were. I'm all for rolling back time a bit and bringing reprise to some of the older modes of teaching and tradition as well as those less than "politically correct" methods for dealing with the traitors that expose our secrets... there was after all, a time when such vermin were either given a serious thrashing or simply exterminated. That may seem harsh to the pacifist minds of today, but it is very much part of Carney and Theatrical tradition -- albeit the darker side of our way. It had its benefits, starting with one's ability to keep the spoiled brats of society in their place and allowing them to discover just a bit of what it is like to have to work before getting what one thinks they can just have for a buck or two that's been well placed.

Enough of my rantings... I've gotten so tired of these type of discussions and said I wasn't going to post to this thread but I just can't help myself. Especially when I know that many of you have been around long enough to know the truth in what I'm saying.

Browning's inspired rant should be mandatory reading on every website and in every newsgroup about Magic.

You post away, Craig. You're right (as you usually are). I've done effects for magicians using a Svengali Deck and it's slipped right past them.

You can use a TT in front of someone who's seen one of the many exposures on it. Well, you can, but I wouldn't suggest you vanish a small silk.

I think there's a subtle difference between exposure and someone knowing the method of the trick they see. Just because a method has been exposed to a person, doesn't mean that they necessarily know how the trick works.

Also, people often forget the method they saw, or can't believe that what you did was done the same way.

The Chinese Rings is a good example; often some smart person will say they know how it's done, only for the performer to convince them that they are wrong. Even though they were right.

As Craig said, it's possible to confound people who think they know how it's done, but it does take some thought.

If your presentation isn't "cookie cutter" and the same as everyone else's, it can be even more effective, precisely because they discount the known method.

Docc Hilford mentions using a classic bit that's often in kids' magic sets and dealers not realising what they'd seen. He dressed it up in different way, added slightly to the method and it went past them.

EDIT: I should explain that I'm not one of those people who is up in arms about exposure sites andlousy "tutorials" on YouTube. I think we're stuck with them, so we should concentrate on improving our performances. If need be, simply stop doing a particular effect until the fuss has died down.

wow. Craig that was a truly inspiring post/essay. I agree completely. I have had people say, I know how thats done, but you did it so much better than I could have. People will still admire you if you can do something better than anyone else. And stop caring about exposure, if you complain to youtube exposers, they'll be getting what they want

Great post Craig. (as ever)
If most people knew how an effect is done, a lot of them couldn't do it.
The mechanics are a small part of an effect, the presentation and slickness of the delivery/performance is what turns in my mind, a simple 'trick' into real magic.
There are some effects that layman do know about, so I try to avoid those. Things like Voodoo Ash, bitten coin and dynamic coins are ones to be well avoided as often in a crowd there is someone who has one thing as their party piece.
I was suprised whilst on holiday on the Isle of Wight to visit a small shop which sold party goods such as outfits, novelties etc and they had a very small selection of magic including the dynamic coins etc. But I was mot suprised to see Pen Thru Anything (being sold for seven quid, I've seen the very same pen being sold for £20 from some magic suppliers).

The effects the layman knows most are ones using gimmicks as if they are going to learn just 'a few tricks' it will be something easy and self-working. I think the effects that involve practice and some kind of effort will always be protected to a degree, due to the fact that a layman who is not interested in working hard will balk at anything like that.

Don't forget that because we have an interest in the subject we are going to be sensitive to it, ie more aware of references to it. There may be thousands of YouTube or whatever sites revealing all sorts but the vast majority of people don't bother with them because they simply are not interested. The typical person any of us performs to is only interested for that short period of time and then it is purely on the grounds that they want to enjoy being entertained. So what if there is somebody about who knows how one or perhaps two of your effects are accomplished. Its very easy to rise above them and they really are a tiny minority.

I often wonder when I hear all these rantings and ravings about the dangers of the Internet and people gaining access to things they shouldn't whether it was the same when the first public printing presses were set in motion. Perhaps Mandrake could elucidate.

I see it as two kinds of exposure: Exposure to the general public and exposure to wanna-be magicians (if you use exposure sites I dont consider you a real magician)...

Now exposure to the general public... I really dont give a c*** (not the best). I am not worried about my friends or clients seeing videos on the net. IF they do, they do... nothing I can do about it. As long as my performance is nailed down, I have no worries. Mainly because I never perform an effect the way its taught. I make it my own, which is what we as magicians should do. Those who complain about it, are generally the ones with no originallity. Also the general public wont be performing the effects.
As long as your performance kicks ass, it shouldnt matter if they know how its achieved.


Now exposure to "magicians", that ticks me off. ITs a disrespect to both the creators and performers. If I had worked months or even years on creating and perfecting an effect, only to have some punk kid post it on a site for other punk magicians to view... that would tick me off. Thats putting a dent in my income. They didnt have the right to "teach" or give my effect away. Thats jsut plain unethical. But thats just a whole other topic.