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by **BanaZombie** » Jul 22nd, '07, 20:40

Abracadabra

by **Michael Jay** » Jul 22nd, '07, 20:46

My apologies Zombiefreak, but I just bristle at things like this:

Magic is an art, and you are and artist....Whats your name little girl? I'm janie, ahh thats cute that was my name when I was a little girl. Old classic that still usually gets some laughs.

You call such a thing art?

In Absolute Magic, Derren Brown wrote:One cannot look at a magic-related Internet discussion e-group notice-board web-forum without seeing the word 'art' bandied up and down the electric super-motorway as if art and magic were two concepts unequivocally equated and the most well-suited word-companions that one could ever hope to find fumbling with each other in the coats-room at an ideas-party. It seems that through the literature of magicians determined to deem their own magic important and worthwhile, a whole new generation of novices has been born which learns artistic pretensions before an in-jog overhand shuffle replacement. Indeed it would seem to the casual surfer of these virtual fora that the artistic community had recenlty accpted magic (in particular close-up magic with lots of touching) as a Fine Art and ranks the Sucker Silks along with the opera (and I use the word very cleverly to mean the plural of opus) of Bach.

I fully agree with Mr. Brown.

While I understand and appreciate what you are trying to accomplish with your post, I just hate to see the word "art" bandied about in such a way.

Mike.

by **BanaZombie** » Jul 22nd, '07, 22:44

The art of insanity

by **themagicwand** » Jul 22nd, '07, 22:57

It depends on your definition of what "art" is. You seem to believe that all magic performers, all musicians, all painters, all poets, are "artists". They're not.

Music-wise, would you describe the Cheeky Girls as artists simply because they produce "music"? No. Of course not.

My mother-in-law goes to night school once a week and throws some paint at a piece of paper. She enjoys it and sometimes produces a pleasing piece of work. Is she an "artist"? No. Does she regard herself as an "artist"? No. She just enjoys splashing paint onto paper.

I'm a magician. I do this for a living. It pays my bills and feeds my family. Am I an artist? No. I'm a magician. I come from Sheffield. If I described myself as a "magical artist" I'd get beaten up.

Maybe it's a cultural thing. I notice you're located in California. I get the impression (probably totally wrong of me) that most folk in California are artists of one kind or other.

When everyone is an artist, it kind of dilutes the real meaning of the word.

by **BanaZombie** » Jul 22nd, '07, 23:06

Full Moon and I'm loving it

by **Michael Jay** » Jul 22nd, '07, 23:12

Mr. Bell has really stated my point of view (and he came across one heck of a lot better than I did!).

Of worthy note, here, Zombiefreak - I am not making my statement directly to street magic. I am speaking of magic in general, so please don't think that I'm picking on street magicians, I'm not. I'm picking on everyone who does a boring card trick or goofy, little coin trick, or moves a bunch of boxes around on stage whilst dancing like they somehow manage to equal themselves and their supposed art to "The Nutcracker Suite."

As quoted from Mr. Brown above, "Indeed it would seem to the casual surfer of these virtual fora that the artistic community had recenlty accepted magic...as a Fine Art and ranks the Sucker Silks along with...Bach."

I just get very tired of magicians calling themselves artists when, for the most part, they are not.

To quote Mr. Bell:

When everyone is an artist, it kind of dilutes the real meaning of the word.

Mike.

by **BanaZombie** » Jul 22nd, '07, 23:16

Three of Clubs

by **Kenneth** » Jul 23rd, '07, 04:35

No offense, but i think everything stated in this post is obvious or optional

A street magician gets 30 seconds to shine to a person, you dont have to be funny or outgoing, David Blane is very very awkward. His patter is "Watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch"
he does his trick then walks away.

by **BanaZombie** » Jul 23rd, '07, 06:58

If the spark resides deep within then the magic will never fade again

by **Part-Timer** » Jul 23rd, '07, 10:20

I think there's a confusion between 'an art' and 'art'. Magic is a performing art, just as painting is a creative art. However, neither has to be 'art'. To me, the more important thing to remember is that you are supposed to be performing/entertaining.

I'd say that we're better off without everything being art. Imagine a world where the only music were Bach, with no rock, jazz or pop.

by **seige** » Jul 23rd, '07, 10:35

I agree—'art' is a word much abused. Like 'marketing' or 'creative' or 'design'.

If you're a magic 'artist', I'd say that you have to be exceptional, or adept.

If you're a 'performing artist', that's not saying you're artistic, it's a phrase used to describe someone in that field.

I love the Cheeky Girls reference, spot on.

by **greedoniz** » Jul 23rd, '07, 10:54

This is quite weird as this subject of art came up during this Saturdays TM meet.
I stated that magic is rarely if ever a true artform. I do often refer in my posts that magic is an artform and i realise that doing so is incorrect.

As said above most other mediums are also rarely art. Most of the music and films out today like magic are just entertainment and reflect or say nothing of the world. Magic is a hard medium in which to create art.

by **Kenneth** » Jul 23rd, '07, 22:25

Zombiefreak wrote:Blaine does not the street magician make. Hit and run is his style high impact made for t.v. I don't work for T.V. I work for me and the people I connect with. His magic is almost like shock magic. So I respect your opinion but your way off base on this one. I was hoping to create a forum where people trade ideas and methods of crowd control and such. So far this topic has had nothing to do with my original post. No matter what I'll keep making magic. It seems that I may need to explain busking or full length street magic. Busking is perfomance of art, music, jugglers, performers and entertainers in exchange for tips. Alot of people flesh out a good living doing this, including Magicians. Some do it for fun some do it for experience, but my goals are to connect with peoples imaginations and creativity. So I'm sure as a magician you can understand that because I would imagine that maybe thats some of your same goals. If not what then motivates you to do magic. I remember as a child being so captivated by magic, circus and performance in general. I was the kid that wanted to run away with the circus. But enough with that trite nonsense I'm getting off track here. So take it as you like I support you as a magician and sincerely respect your opinions.

yes, but when people think of a street magician, dont they think of blaine? dont they want to see something blaine-ish?

by **BanaZombie** » Jul 24th, '07, 05:38

Voila

by **BanaZombie** » Jul 25th, '07, 05:05

Innocence in the heart of a child is true magic

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