talkmagic.co.uk

hey guys,

After being passionate about magic for a year, and doing some perfomances infront of friends at parties and school, I decided to take it to the next level.

Last night, I went in the park, there was a big event, with outdoor pubs everywhere, It was Ideal for magic!
And it went fairly well.. At first I was so nervous lol. I hadn't talked to anyone, and my heart was allready thumphing like crazy..

But than I got over it, and stepped up to the first table..
"Hey, How are you doing.."
...
"I was wondering if I could borrow something from you.."

At this point their faces told me everything:P they thought I was a bum or some other dude looking for money.. But then I produced a sponge ball.. and they knew I was talking about something else..
I had a great time.. and my techniques were almost a 100% accurate..
(in my opinion )

But the problem is..
every table I went to.. there was always one person.. Who knew about DL's and about TT..
and sometimes even about retention vanishes..
and this screwed up most of my sleight of hand.. and tricks.. since they enjoyed telling me how its done
I didn''t know what to do, so I just smiled lightly and ignored them..
But it totally took down my credibility..

THIS ANNOYS ME SO MUCH!
Does anyone else have problems with this?? and what to do..?
I know all about looking for spectators that seem more suggestive to magic.. who actually want to be entertained, instead of figureing out the tricks.

Another thing I came across during this first "Magic fieldtrip" was;
Numerous times, people would tell me:
Oowh! You learned that from youtube didnt you!!

That annoys me aswell!!
I can say without bragging, that my techniques and skills are better than the junk you ussually find on youtube..

It seems as if most lay-man, know about a DL and TT.. and sometimes even about the retention vanish..
How do you guys handle these situations..?

Hope to get some advice!

And to end positive!..
A had a great time.. even though many spectators wanted to see me go down..
Some times I feel as if im to nice to people.. I like to be personal and talk about different things in between tricks.. to get to know the people.. thats what I enjoy..

But it seems, that when I show interest in their doings.. that they feel comfortable enough to be allowed to take cards out of my hands..
or other things..
Should I stay more distant from the specs? be a magician only?
and not a "Nice magician, that you can actually talk with about more than just magic"..

One of the fault I figured out myself..
I didnt repeat any tricks.. but I did stay to long at one table.. did to many tricks for the same specs..
And this might be the wrong approach..

anyway! hope to hear the experiences of others..

Henk wrote:But the problem is..
every table I went to.. there was always one person.. Who knew about DL's and about TT..
and sometimes even about retention vanishes..
and this screwed up most of my sleight of hand.. and tricks.. since they enjoyed telling me how its done
I didn''t know what to do, so I just smiled lightly and ignored them..
But it totally took down my credibility..

You will find that this happens less as you go on. You might want to look at your DL though. I used to get busted with it the odd time too, so I just properly looked at how I was doing it and discovered that I was just not turning it in a very natural manner.
So I looked at how the move is preformed on most DVDs that I own, and I noticed that they turn it over more offhand (Almost flip it over) where I was much more careful to give myself piece of mind that it would not expose. So I changed my methods, and it has not happened since!

You will find the exact same thing with the TT. Look at some of the other threads here, where people discuss doing a bill switch for someone only to be told "WOW, that was great, How did you do that? I used to know some magic, but it was only with a TT". As your performances improve, and as you learn to observe your teachers (Be it from a DVD or Face to Face) this will happen less and less often.

Don't sweat it, learn from your experiences, and invest in a video camera so you can observe your own performances better!

I think alot of this comes down to your performance. Keep the audience guessing at whats going to happen next. That's one of my golden rules, never let the spectator in on what you're going to do, if possible you should have them assuming that you're going to do something totally different to what you actually do. That way the magic comes as more of a suprise and they'll have no idea how you did it.

Also if you're using well known tricks, try to make them your own, alter the presentation so that they don't get recognised by any specs that might know them.

Well done with your performance, it sounds like you had fun and that's the main thing.

Henk wrote:THIS ANNOYS ME SO MUCH!
Does anyone else have problems with this?? and what to do..?

I always find that a good, hard twist on the offender's nipples very quickly curtails these kind of comments...just a shame that it always seems to be the guys, and not the ladies

Henk wrote:Should I stay more distant from the specs? be a magician only?
and not a "Nice magician, that you can actually talk with about more than just magic"..

As far as this part of your question goes I would say that as a magician or more importantly an entertainer it is your mandate to show an interest in your audience and engage with them personally.
You still need to maintain the entertainer/spectator divide (dont sit down and start drinking with them for example...that is of course if its a paid gig) but by chatting to them about their evening inbetween effects makes it a more intimate performance.
I think it was in Ortiz's book Strong magic where he talks about the idea that what most interests people is people.
Also I think someone mentioned it on here that when performing imagine that you are the host of the party and behave accordingly.
Ask them how they are and if they are enjoying the evening etc. This will bring them onto your side as they see you as a friendly type and therefore will be less likely to be difficult.

Keep practicing and keep performing as it is the only way to get better. I have performed at about 10 paid gigs so far and I'm still on the steep learning curve.

This may sound harsh but it's very unlikely that most audiences will have any technical knowledge of what a DL or retention vanish are. However, they will be aware that you could have turned over two cards as one or pretended to put a coin in one hand but kept it in the other. TTs are actually quite commonly known amongst laypeople, often as a joke or gag device, but if you use them for more or less any effect other than a silk vanish they shouldn't suspect their presence.

What I'm getting to is that the reason they suspected these things is simply because you gave them a reason to think you had, either by bad technique or nerves as you did the move leading them to see that 'something' had happened (probably the latter as you say your technique was good but it was your first time doing magic to strangers). So the answer is to carry on doing magic for what we call 'real' people as much as possible. What I mean by that is people who aren't your family or immediate friends, preferably complete strangers. Once you have more confidence you'll find that the technicalities of what you do get noticed far less. There's a kind of path of fear which all magicians walk on one way or another in regards to confidence in performing. It tends to start with a reluctance to show new material to anyone, even close family. In my case I'd only show a trick to my little sister and after that my mum if I felt confident enough. Then you gradually begin to perform for friends, then friends of friends, then random people you bump into in the pub, then 'proper' spectators at paid gigs. Every step of the way is terrifying to progress from but worth it in the end.

Lookslike you're coming along nicely, keep it up!

I just have to focus on the positives here - you are at least one step ahead of me at the moment I do some magic, but as of yet I only ever perfrom for family and friends, I have never had the balls to go into an event and just do magic for strangers (well, I do in bars and ckubs occasionally, so not much talking and interaction is involved ) so I say (kind of what others are saying) keep practicing, try to use a mirror or a close friend / partner who may act as a test victim for your trick routine but, most of all keep at it, you sound like you had a great time and really enjoyed it, so good on you *thumbs up*

PS. with the whole youtube thing...just say something clever back, like 'na, there are WAY better sites to learn tricks off, youtube is full of amatures, I use www. (insert fake magic site name here) .com - its REALLY great to see them rush to find a pen to write down 'this_is_how_to_do_really_amazing_magic_tricks_tutorial_videos_online.com' (say it 'tongue in cheek' so they know you are kidding around though) - in other words, brush it off, if people actually watch youtube for magic vids then they are idiots, most of the 'tutorial' vids are a 10 year old in there room, with a cr*p deck of non bike cards, who cant even shuffle or fan properly anyways

Dan
aka Magical Trev

Thanks for all the tips guys!

I did recognize what lady of mystery said.. I ussually tell them in my patter, what magical thing is going to happen.. maybe im scared that if I dont tell them, they wont know see it..
But that would just be insulting their intelligence..
Ill try to alter my patter!

and work on the naturalness of my DL..
And I did drink with the spectators.. after a few tricks, and some nice conversation, I should have walked away.. and gone to the next group..

Anyway! Thanks guys..

If you're just strolling around a pub performing unpaid then I don't really see any problem with having a drink or two with the spec. I did this once, spent an hour with a couple, had a few drinks and got a nice paid booking for my troubles.

If you're at a paid gig then I'd say that's a different matter and wouldn't do it.

Lady of Mystery wrote:Also if you're using well known tricks, try to make them your own, alter the presentation so that they don't get recognised by any specs that might know them.

Yes! And give them new and unusual names, incase you are asked. I had one guy tell me how he'd searched for weeks for a tutorial of one of my tricks. A very famous and very-easy-to-find trick. heh.

bronz wrote:There's a kind of path of fear which all magicians walk on one way or another in regards to confidence in performing. It tends to start with a reluctance to show new material to anyone, even close family. In my case I'd only show a trick to my little sister and after that my mum if I felt confident enough. Then you gradually begin to perform for friends, then friends of friends, then random people you bump into in the pub, then 'proper' spectators at paid gigs. Every step of the way is terrifying to progress from but worth it in the end.

Absolutley. I thought it was just me. It's like a switch gets flicked when you move on a step -- it can be something I have performed a hundred times and yet I become suddenly self concious. All of the 'seams' become amplified and I suddenly notice rough edges that I'm certain, logically at least, cannot be there. I've found the best way to do it is just to put your head down and go for it.

It seems that you did just that, did very well and come out all the better for it.
Good for you!

Maybe you can move into weerder effects if they catch you out on normal ones. Kenton Knepper's coin in balloon is an excellent effect that's completely inexplicable even to magicians.

Well I don't want to move into weirder effects. I like the routines I do;)
I think it's just a matter of adjusting and adjusting and ajusting.. to get my sleights and performance and a certain fashion, so people will be convinced MAGIC is going on!

So here's my progress report

Since this festival, which i was performing at, went on all week. I returned a couple of times, and tried to fix my mistakes.. So I could end the week with a good feeling

They second time I went to the park, where the festival was and where masses of people were waiting to be entertained, I did the same routines.
But this time only 1 or sometimes 2 "depending on their level of interest" routines per spectator.. This worked out great, since I left them in mystery, and didn't bore them at all.. I was about 5-8 minutes with different people. I might even stay longer, but for now I kept it at that, to keep people from figureing out my sleights, which I used over and over again in my sponge ball routine.

Today, on the last day of the festival, I went back.. To give myself the the oppurtonity to perform one last time at this perfect location.

I had lost the fear of opproaching people, and started of with a sponge routine.. and followed by a coin routine..
These got great reactions..
But every now and then, when I had spectators who werent all to impressed by sponge or coins, I'd take out the heavy artillery and started one of my favourite card routines: The Ambitious card.

I let them sign the card.. and made it return to the top many times.. and eventually ended, after shuffling by the spectator, with the card in my pants pocket.
I expected HEAVY reactions.. like in the Crash course2: Ambitous X.
But I couldn't get it out of them.. I had to do with a acceptable reaction..
But I want the Silence.. the screams.. the weird expressions on their faces like in the videos..

Im wondering why this is..
I only did the card routine infront of spectators who weren't to impressed by sponges and coins.. I did this first of all: because I didnt want to ruin good performances infront of these spectators, and leave them in mystery. And I only did this, to get to spectators who I couldnt AMAZE BIG TIME with the sponges and coins..

I'd love to hear opinions..
Even though I have my own.. So this post is more to just end the thread and let you all know how it ended for me:)

I think the reactions were mediocer because:
1. The spectators were persons that react on the inside rather than showing by lots of noise or expressions.

2. They reacted less "Big Time" because the sponge routines didnt go so well, so they knew it was just tricky stuff, instead of magic.. and they knew on the inside.. that it could all be explained by logic..
Just to be clear my sponge and coin routines did go good in my opinion, I just did cards routines when the spectators didn't give the "Big" reactions". I wanted that reaction.. So I could go home with a feeling of Improvement

All together im happy with my perfomances.. and am eager to get my knew material coming in next week
As always when new material is on the way.. I think that this new stuff, will improve my performances by 200% lol

Thanks for thinking with me

just keep at it, practise as much as you can, and dont put so much pressure on yourself..maybe you're doing too much?

stick to one element and learn that inside out? good luck and enjoy it thats the main part...

though i would say, dont tell them what you are about to do exactly..if it does go wrong, if you've not delivered, you can always recover or move on...tell them what's going to happen after you do it...

You could always learn some even more amazing unbelivable tricks with cards, that will leave anyone baffled even if they know about double lifts etc..

The internet is slowly ruining magic, but there is nothing we can do, other than keep 1 step ahead, make sure we perform and ENTERTAIN people to the highest level possible.

Cause thats your job, to entertain people.

You could also maybe try using something other than cards. Alot of people find card tricks boring, especially after they have seen a few.

Just keep working on your magic and your entertainment skills. And stick to the magicians code.

These secrets have been gaurded for a long time, we cant let the internet ruin it for everybody.

If you are doing an effect with one method (such as DL)then ensure the next effect uses a different technique altogether.
One effect I like to use is a card one from Hugard 'Encyclopedia of Card Tricks' called "Miraskill".
Not only does this have a prediction theme to it which creates a good talking point, the spectator is involved with the effect and the cards never leave their hands. This can be repeated with two or three specs, each with a different outcome that you predicted correctly.

It's brave of you to just go out there and do it. Well done.