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mark lewis wrote:The Ian Rowland book is NOT a good one to start

I agree (and have said so before on this forum - more than once).

I also agree that Richard Webster's works would be a good place to start.

But dammit, if only Mark produced his own psychic course...



Actually, I don't know what that's like, so don't treat that one as a recommendation! I'm sure it's full of useful information, though.

Controversially (perhaps), try going to Borders, or Books Etc. and look in the New Age section and...buy yourself a book on palmistry.

reverend lewis's palmistry and tarot (especially tarot) come highly recommended from me...

im much more a tarot than the palm though..shame, i like holding girls' hands...

if you've not done it before, websters books as said , are good and also ridiculously cheap...

just be warned of the moral and mental health sides of things mr. i.d.

that is the most important thing...

Some excellent advice here, particularly about buying a few books from the 'New Age' section.

What Rowland's book does, which no other (IMHO) does, is explain the STRUCTURES behind cold-reading, although it's correct to say that he doesn't really teach how to do one. However, anyone who finished his book without being able to do a reading would be a reader unable to understand the processes he describes.

Knepper's 'Completely Cold' is just too light in structure for a beginner, but Webster's stuff is very good. Also, look at some of the nutters on youtube for inspiration.

Lastly, as a point of ethics, I have always refused to do readings that are in any way considered to be pyschic. My own 'mind-reading' routines always centre around the theme of evolutionary pyschology and the extraordinary qualities of the evolved mind. I don't even copy the ideas of Derren et al (even though they're excellent) about NLP - partly because that sort of stuff is pretty much as unreasonable as the claims of psychics.

Good luck with whatever route you decide to take.

Lee

Lee Warren wrote:What Rowland's book does, which no other (IMHO) does, is explain the STRUCTURES behind cold-reading, although it's correct to say that he doesn't really teach how to do one. However, anyone who finished his book without being able to do a reading would be a reader unable to understand the processes he describes.

Absolutely. It's a great book for learning about cold reading, rather than learning how to do cold reading. I've not found another book that tackles that side of the subject anything like so well.

I agree with your comments about 'Completely Cold' too. I just don't think it's right for I.D. at the moment.

lozey wrote:Well if you told them your an entertainer as opposed to a psychic then you haven't decieved them in any way! What they are getting is a piece of entertainment. I don't agree with magicians pretending to be real psychics, but you haven't, so I say buy a palm reading book and go for it

My suggestion is that you stop PRETENDING to be a psychic by doing magic tricks...

Richard Webster, Corinda, Burling Hull, Robert Nelson and a plethora of others old and newer have all stated that IF YOU DO THIS JOB RIGHT YOU WILL BE SEEN AS A REAL PSYCHIC. Even those that insist on a disclaim, like Banachek, have people stating things like "I understand the legality of it all and why you have to say that you aren't real, but I think you're an amazingly blessed soul..."

Then we have the real point that some famous Mind Reading guru of the past pointed out a few decades ago... I think his name was Dunninger or something of that sort... NO BODY WANTS TO SEE A FAKE MIND READER! Worse yet, no body wants to PAY for a fake mind reader/psychic.

Pardon the lecture but I so loathe all these johnnycomelately trend chasers that don't know squat about "real" mentalism, posting a point of view such as this one. I've been a Reader since the mid-1970s and worked in Mentalism & Bizarre styled magic since the late 1980s... I've been around this block more than a few times and I started into the Psychic arena NOT through magic but from legit/shut-eye training and study. You will find that a huge percentage of the older Mentalists in the world have that same common denominator going for them and because of this, they see things just a hint different.

Now, to my understanding there are less than a dozen full-time Mentalist on this forum who have anything resembling significant experience in the field who likewise do extensive Readings as their "day job" One of them has already spoken up and if I were you all I'd be listening closely in that Rev. Lewis actually does know what he's talking about on this topic more than most.... we don't always agree on things, but Mark is certainly seasoned when it comes to this mode of work.

I believe you will find a sticky around here that I composed years ago that states rather directly to NOT start off with the Ian Rowland "Full Facts" book... aside from being strongly biased, it has inaccuracies that will confuse you if and when you move deeper into your studies. I see Rowland's contribution and the TRADECRAFT books as "second year study" more than anything; not that they are "advanced" but that they will give you perspectives that will help you refine the more legit side of the skill... but so will classes in linguistics, psych, NLP, and FACS.

I tell all of my students to learn a system, I don't care which one just find a legit divination system like the Tarot or Palmistry and LEARN IT! Don't worry about billets, imp boards or all the magician's hog wash; focus on and learn the system.

If I were to start someone on a course of study I'd have them learning two things at the same time; Numerology and Somatotypes (http://www.innerexplorations.com/catpsy/t1c4.htm) followed closely by Asian Face Reading and Palmistry. This would be (at minimum) a two year course of study that would open up for the serious student, a near limitless ability to size up the average human being. There are many secondary elements I'd add to this course, all of which are related skills when it comes to understanding the "Naked Ape" but that's just me.

During the latter part of a student's second year I'd introduce them to things like the Law of Commonality and Statistical Studies -- that canned and generic material magicians call "Cold Reading" but on the more analytical levels it's seen as Profiling statistics and base behavioral psychology. But there is so much more to it all... so much more!

If you learn any basic system however, and just put the tricks to the side for a while, I promise that you will amaze yourself with what comes out of your Readings; including information that you have absolutely no way of discovering, given the situation.

I have not put this information out for the sake of stirring the proverbial pot with all the cynics that tend to hover about... most of whom have only recently adopted that attitude because of the UK icons of magic and their bias towards anything surreal or spiritual. Trust me, being an atheist is not a sign of higher intellect... there are just as many zealots and idiots waving that banner as there are in the religious world, so let's not turn this into a big to-do

WOW!!

Thanks for all the information and advice guys, and for those kind hearts that have PM'd me.. Im on the case Ill reply in due course, I have a few to answer.

First up, I do not wish to be known as real pyschic, nor a fake one. I enjoy mentalism and am becoming more attracted to the possibilities everyday. I just think that having elements of reading, for such a situation as the one cropping up will be very useful.

I am/would/will do promote myself as an 'Entertainer'. The thing is, as Craig Browning pointed out, as have others, no matter what I tell them, if they believe that I possess some 'otherworldly' powers they will believe that no matter what.

So.. I would certainly not want want to be nothing but a tarot reader or palm reader for that would involve living that life. I dont want that. However, being known as a Mentalist, thought reader, pyschic enetertainer, does appeal. For I want to entertain, not be seen as a forteller of peoples lives and fortune!! I admire those that do and the committment it takes, to live a life, to sustain a charachter, is awe inspiring.

But first and foremtost I would not steer away from the fact that I want to be there to entertain.

I got a call from one of the women yesterday who, in October is thinking of putting together a ladies night. I explained that I would be there as and entertainer, to make them laugh and make their night memorable. I told her I could organise it to be a 'pyschic entertainment affair' type thing, but it would be very light hearted and I would make the whole thing upbeat.

She seemed happy with that and I am to call her in a few weeks with prices etc for her to get organised.

This is no problem I feel now as the advice I have been given here is great, I can draw little bits from everyone and I think I know which direction I will go. I think..

Cold reading is something that I have a little ( and I mean little ) experience with by building into effects I already perform. The palm reading will be a nice little side skill I can use but I would advertise is as pure entertainment for those that enjoy that kind of thing and as advised by someone here, would make all the readings upbeat and generic.

Perhaps by doing effects to people before reading, I can make the readings more individual because I think you can ascertain the kind of people they are by how the interact with you as a spectator. Using some of the techniques from Pure effect, Sleight of mind and books like those, you can find out what kind of people you are working with early on so you can draw on their individual 'attributes' and adapt the way you relate to them during an effect. Then later when doing readings, you already know a little about them, so can make it a little more personal, drawing on their makeup as a person.

Hmm.. a lot to take in and I thank everyone who has posted so far. I want to gain experience as a performer in a paid setting, obviously want to get into paid work, and mentalism is the field I wish to work in, in a fun capacity though, and I think my undoubted charm can pull it off

I wouldnt turn my back completely on the magic side of magic though, as I enjoy this too.. so I thought from the beginning of my study of mentalism that I would certainly mix the two.

Ok.. Im going off to reply to all the emails and start working on a specific show.

I.D

Lee Warren wrote:Knepper's 'Completely Cold' is just too light in structure for a beginner.

Part-Timer wrote:I agree with your comments about 'Completely Cold' too. I just don't think it's right for I.D. at the moment.

Everybody shot down my advice.
Just kidding. I did mean for it to be one part of what to study, not the only thing to study. I've only been studying mentalism for about a year, so I'm sure others that replied have more experience than me.

I think 'Completely Cold' has its place. I know some hate it, but I think that it's fine. I just didn't think it was going to be the best place for I.D. to look.

Part-Timer wrote:I think 'Completely Cold' has its place. I know some hate it, but I think that it's fine. I just didn't think it was going to be the best place for I.D. to look.

Like much of Kenton's material, it's not of an "elementary" or "entry level" nature. Granted, there are some old dogs out there that hate it for other reasons but I have found this, like Rowland and Tradecraft, a great resource for those that have a foundation set.