talkmagic.co.uk

If the originator of this thread would like to make a comment on my idea for a two way forcing deck then please feel free its your thread.

MagicDiscoMan - I do quite like the idea of using "pick an odd number between 2-24" - although there is still that niggle that when the spectator reconstructs the trick they wonder why it wasn't a number between 1 and 52, Maybe this is just a case of Magicians paranoia, maybe not.

There's also the thought that they will think "ah - why did it have to be an odd number? Maybe every other card is..." even if that has nothing to do with how the trick is done. I don't like them looking smug thinking they know how it is done.

I will certainly be experimenting with it though, and I will let you know how I get on.

As for using the svangali decks to force the cards - that kinda misses the point of the thread. I already know numerous ways of forcing a card, some very strong and very simple - the question was generalised than that, I was more looking for ideas on how to force the spectator to do exactly what you want and still leave them with the feeling that they have had a totally free will.

In fact with the particular trick I had in mind - you really do have to do it with a two way forcing deck - the whole trick revolves around that concept, so the example in this case was very relevant.

In saying that I am very pleased with the discussion that has come about from this thread. It has been very helpful to me.

Particularly Ive found extremely interesting the points made on the use of body language, NVC (Non Verbal Communication) and NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) and it has certainly made me want to read up a lot more on these subjects.

Maybe even consider an OU course (if there is one).
so a special thanks there to MagicBilly, HappyToad and BaBaBoom

Whats wrong wth fanning the cards and saying pick a number between 1 and 52, then depending on whether the number is over 26 or not, counting to the number from either the left or the right of the fan ensuring thus ensuring that you end with a card from the top 26?

Whats wrong wth fanning the cards and saying pick a number between 1 and 52, then depending on whether the number is over 26 or not counting to the number from either the left or the right of the fan ensuring thus ensuring that you end with a card from the top 26?

I can't say much without giving away the trick, but basically in this case it wouldn't work. You'll have to trust me on that.

The other thing is you need to do it twice, one at each end and you couldnt guarantee both numbers arent in the same half, either way this two way forcing deck has some unique attributes.

But I do like the lateral thinking.

To be honest the idea of the subject was as much about handling spectators as it was getting a pecific solution to a potential problem, and for that it has been very useful.

If your looking for a good "helper" for your magic, i would always advise never to choose the "life and soul" of the group, they are most likely to cause problems. I tend go with someone who seems a little easier to work with. I try to steer clear of complex card tricks as they get quite boring but if there are a lot of things the spectator has to do I take them in small steps. If they seem ok with that I can speed it up. I'm very guilty of not following instructions in helping people with their magic (or when constructing flatpack furniture). It's usually because I'm panicking if I'm doing everything right. So I try not to humiliate anyone when showing them magic as I know what it feels like, I'm there to entertain people, not to embarrass them.

Ive had thos unrully spectators who just seem to go out of the way to either ruin the trick or make it alot harder for yourself. I've got a couple of ways of dealing with this, if they dont pick the card i wanted them to, i just use a key to locate when its put back in the pack and paclm it off when found, now the spectator can hold the pack mess around with it all they like thinking their clever and then look a bit daft when they find it in their pocket. Or on the other hand, depennding if the person is being realy *rse'y (if thats even a word) and ive lost their card all together, without them looking i get some cigarette ash on my forefingers and say I'm going to mentaly predict their card. I then ask the punter to put their four fingers on my temples and i do the same. To find the card i just use macicians choice and clever wording and make a good guess. If i dont get the trick right, then the spectator is left with two great black marks on their forehead and knows nothing about it, if i do then its just a bonus. Make sure you leave the room before the spectator realises about the ash though.

Just an idea for this specific two-way forcing deck trick. For those really awkward specs why not just riffle up or down the deck and ask them to stop. Then you can pretty much control which half of the deck they take from.

Or riffle down both times - 1st go really fast so they miss, maybe do it again and then do it much much slower so that they choose one early to aviod missing again. Then when you need them to choose from the bottom half riffle quickly past the first half. You can make sure they take from one half or the other when your margin is half the deck. You're not specifically riffle forcing so it's pretty safe.

As everyone says - the key is the psychology. If you hold out a fan of cards that are just from the top of the deck and say in a definite tone 'take one'. You are pretty much telling them to take only the ones fanned out and not from the rest of the deck. If they really want to take from the wrong end of the deck - don't berate them just quickly ignore them and say 'Ok let's try it an easier way' and go into the riffling method.

Just thought you could also dribble the cards to make sure they stop in the top half.

The important thing is that you do the same thing when you want them to take from the force section.

bananafish wrote:How do you cope with spectators that don't do as they are told.

I'm not talking about thehecklers and those that deliberately go out of their way to spoil a trick here, as obviously a col 45 is the best way to handle these (just kidding - no offence intended).

I am, however, talking about those spectators that either can't follow a simple set of instructions, or maybe just think they are trying to be a bit clever.

Hello there.

My solution is to do put the effect to one side, say "I see," and go to a "baffler". Because my stuff is based on psychology, all I really need is to say their name softly and wait for them to glance at my stare, then I say "yes, I think this is going to work particularly well now..." or something similar. Then I start the patter again. Now they want to know what/when/how, etc.

It soon gets their attention! It also seems to aid the suspension of disbelief in the other spectators

Hmmm, this is an old thread

If my wayward spectator is of the kind that always knows the answer to what I've done (but doesn't really) I tend to take him (cos its always a bloke) to one side and tell him that everyone is enjoying my magic and if he persists on saying that he knows how everything is done I'll get half way through the next trick and tell everyone he'll finish it because he's so damn clever. Its never failed to shut them up.

I've very seldom had someone who has heckled or belittled what I have done but the simple answer there is to do a simple Do As I Do. Let them pick the cards and fail every time. Their mates laugh at them and they shut up.

I'm affraid its all down to those two things that get repeatedly mentioned, practice and confidence.

If you've put the time in to learn what you are doing and it still isn't working then please PM me.

ive mentioned this on a similar thread but a doas i do trick i like the cut and restored rope incorporating a daryle get a sneeky bite of rope bit which if your none to subtle about it will be spotted by mr smug, then wile he does the same casualy pull your knot off the end of the rope.

second ponit regards the two way deck and rifle forceing a added tweek of a locator card would allow you to force the first card do a random cut and bring the next force to the top half of the deck for the riffle force once again.

Happy Toad wrote:Nah, I only use it for good. Some may say "yea, your good." I would say, thank you very much.

Hello there,

I must admit to giving enough of the Meta Model to friends (Women exclusively, as it happens. What does this say about men?) to help box heavier against boyfriends who seem to be messing them about with an "ish, sort of, or maybe" carrot and stick number.