talkmagic.co.uk

There seems to be a new (maybe not so new) trend for some of the younger Cardicians to specialise in what they term as pure card skills.

No gimmicks just a deck of cards.

The feeling I get is that it is as much about the flourishes, card juggling and acrobatics (spinning cards from one hand catching it between two cards in the other hand etc) as it is about magic and dare I say card tricks.

At the Ipswich Convention this year there was a young guy present called Jordan Lapping who's skill with the cards was indeed very impressive.

I didn't get much chance to watch what he was doing, but certainly there seemed to be a close knit group of like minded people "sessioning" to each other.

Since then I found a few of Jordan Lapping's youtube videos and again have to admit he has some nice moves.

Getting away from the "but it's not magic" argument and "it's just showing off", I will add that he actually can perform some very impressive magic effects as well as the really neat (can I use that word or am I too old?) flourishy stuff.

So what is the consensus here?
Has anyone else heard of Jordan Lapping?
Should conventions cater more for this new breed of cardician?
who are the other young up an coming card guys and gals?

My gut reaction (and it's a big gut) is that this is in the same category as flourishes - very nice, very skillful and obviously the result of a lot of hard work which may be excellent training for Magic but, frankly, it just leaves me cold. Sorry!

I've never really been into all the over flourishy stuff but more and more people seem to be doing it. I think that conventions and magicians in general should be more accepting of it, it's a different style to what a lot of the old crustys like but it does have a young following and it's those young magicians that need to be encouraged.

I've often heard the old "it's not magic, it's juggling" arguement, but then in my defense I AM a juggler too so...
But quite frankly it isn't magic, but that doesn't stop it being damn impressive. It's not magic, it just happens to be done with cards. In the same way that Contact Juggling isn't technically "juggling" but it does use the same equipment. The comparison there seems quite a good one as you don't find many people who can successfully combine both juggling and contact juggling either.

But on that note I have recently started trying to learn to juggle with playing cards. AND... trying to do magic with juggling equipment.
The juggling with cards will happen first (this is not by immediate choice)

I too don't get this XCM business. In fact I loathe it quite fervently.

I can understand the challenge and the skill invovled but wonder what a spectator gets from seeing such things? The odd flourish here and there can indeed enhance a performance but then turning the entire set into a series of complex cuts to me smacks of 'Looks how clever I am'.

I just wonder what is the entertainment factor for the spectator and therefore how one could go professional with an act such as this unless you are teaching other little oiks this 'craft'.

Also I find that too many fancy moves can spoil a magic performance as an overhandling of cards can lead the spectators to just put the explaination to an effect down to 'well, look how well he can manipulate cards'. Yes they sometimes do this anyway but why hang up a big sign with flashing neon lights?
And finally I find any magic performance should ultimately be about your audience not yourself.

Edit: If kept seperate to a magic performance then yes I can see it as a form of juggling but I've seen quite a few doing XCM with a dab of magic thrown in and it was dreadful

The rrtcm warnsagainst this in the section on flourishes.
Dont hav it at hand to quote but its something like if you flourish to much it removes from the magic and people will just say "hes very good with his hands"
Personaly I hate that sort of reaction because although I do hav awesome hands I DONT want them to know that.
If you see where im goin here...

greedoniz wrote:Edit: If kept seperate to a magic performance then yes I can see it as a form of juggling but I've seen quite a few doing XCM with a dab of magic thrown in and it was dreadful

That's a great statement.

XCM has its place. But for me, it's not in magic.

Saying that, I won't slate it to the point of saying it's rubbish... I find it VERY entertaining to watch, when done well.

And I find flourishes—in moderation—can enhance an effect when used at the right moment.

But, I agree that XCM is nothing more than juggling with cards. And juggling isn't magic.

If magic conventions are to invite 'XCM-ers' in, then they should also invite Jugglers, because jugglers use balls, and balls are used in magic—like cards.

In fact, there'd be no stopping. Where would it end?

seige wrote:In fact, there'd be no stopping. Where would it end?

Greg Frewin?

To be fair, every major juggling convention I've been to has had a magic dealer or 2. And you need only get out a deck of cards at any of the minor ones to get a few people running up saying "oo, i do magic too"
The jugglers welcome to magicians. We should do the same. Just make sure they know their place when it comes to cards though

I tend to agree. From what I can tell this new brand of cardistry "XCM" (eXtreme Card Manipulation) is about taking the McBride style of performing to the close up audience - so basically showing off.

I'm not sure that I can see any real benefit for magicians as you're not really performing a trick - just bewildering your audience with a firework display and a pausing for applause at the end. If anything unexpected happens the audience will probably think that they blinked at the wrong moment rather than being presented a true mystery.

Ok in summary - if you juggle, balls, clubs, fire, cards - that's great. However to impress, an act needs to be more than just impressive. You have to involve your audience, talk to them, make mistakes, build up tension. You've also got to know when to break the tension with a joke, or putting down your props and relaxing. This is probably the hardest skill of all.

My favourite example of this Daryl idly turning away from someone who's watching him closely and saying to someone else "Wow, you haven't blinked once!", everyone turns and looks, there's a laugh and Daryl puts down whatever he's holding having completely covered "the move". Now THAT'S MAGIC!

I must confess I do enjoy watching this kind of thing, although a performance consisting of a series of increasingly complex cuts does get tedious after a very short while. However, I think these guys are very talented and some of the flourishes are extremely impressive; I dread to think how many endless hours of practice they put in to perfect these moves. Credit where it's due.

As far as card magic is concerned, I don't think this level of card manipulation would add much to an effect; indeed, I think it would be distracting and just plain unnecessary if performed in excess. I see XCM as a (generally) entertaining form of card "magic", even if it isn't strictly magic. Nice to watch when not combined with card magic, but that's about it.

It was probally about a year ago a co worker Mike who i was teaching a pressure fan, spider crawl Flourish , he wanted to show me something, he learned, it look very similiar to Swing Swivle false cut, he said he seen it on a video streaming website by a guy John Lapping, I went online immediatly and researched to see if i can find this performance wnd while I couldn't i did come across some of his variations of older effects like time machine and transposistiong , Now well the slieghts required for these effects where executed rather well, the effect itself performed by him was alittle bland.

What aout 'Emry?

i agree with siege that although flourishes are great and i love working on them and watching them.... they arent an effect on their own but can make a trick look even more impressive if used at the right time eg... pull a coin out of thing air, vanish it and then bring it back and coin roll it while telling them how 'it can just vanish instantly' or whatever and they find it very entertaining...

Does anyone else remember the episode of Jonathan Creek (?The Three Gamblers?) where our hero disarms the baddie with a well flicked card knocking the gun out of his hand? And after receiving congratulations for his accuracy he confesses he was actually aiming for the guy's, er, dangly bits!

OKAY, OKAY I ADMIT IT, DANG! I love the extreme card magic. I practice it all the freaking time. Do I ever use it while performing magic? No! At least not the extreme form. However I will thow in some flourishes. I will finish my ambitious card with the card leaping into the air, making 45 revolutions only to land in my awaiting left hand. Or I can't find the card, in fustration I put the deck on the table and one card will fly out of the deck face down and go skimming over the top of the table to land at the far end. If the table is really smooth, like glass I'll do the same thing, only when I turn over the card not only is it the selected card, but it has found its mate as there are two cards there. Say the King and Queen of hearts, (A move I learned from Paul Diamond). I'll also throw in the 5 faces of sybil cut. People love it and I am there to entertain I don't really care about this purist garbage. I care about my audience. I'm just careful that the flourishes don't overwhelm the effect and that is about routining. A fourish in a restaurant for example makes a great opener as the customer is now paying attention, not thinking, "oh boy another lame bottom magician doing the same tricks my uncle Joe does" I go in starting off with a quick 5 way cut and they are thinking, "okay this guy is full of himself but he knows what he is doing" There is a long history of magicians and flourishes Piet forton's pop up move for example. (not sure of the spelling of the name), Daryl does his card revelation after his one handed cut I forget what its called. My point is that there is a place for card flourishes in card magic. Just as there is a place for coin flourshes in coin magic, (knuckle walk, coin stars, muscle pass is often used as a flourish). And once again audiences for the most part love it.

At next years convention I am thinking of holding a XCM workshop/demo whilst one of the lectures is on. I am just not sure how interested people would be.

Maybe if it was at the same time as a children's magic lecture...

I suspect the John Lapping bloke was actually Jordan Lapping. It seems this lad has quite a name for himself.