talkmagic.co.uk

As a magician, you are always aware of what goes on in a magic trick to some extent, the moves etc...

It just as come as a thought too me whether the audience can comphrend it in the same way - like with sponge magic - where you put one in their hand and it turns to two (you know how its done) but does it ever cross your mind that the audience thinks they know how its done. It just worries me, that what i am obvious of, the audience will be two.
oh you picked up two cards, or you put two balls together - even with card magic when you vanish a coin, it is obvious to us it is in the other hand, etc, but is this obvious to the audience?

what are your thoughts - not so much on the audience knowing the secret, but rather the audience knowing what is obvious

Some of what we consider "obvious", is actually very deceptive to the audience. An example that comes to mind is the "tilt" move; I never considered it to be very deceptive and yet my wife, who is my severest critic and can see through most effects, was stunned by it.

I have had very great success with the glide, while master card man Harry Lorayne finds it not good at all.

Go figure.

Let me draw a parallel for you......internet/telephone scams. They seem really obvious to those that "get it" but not so obvious to those being scammed.

Deception comes in multiple levels and the moves themselves in magic are not actually that deceptive in themselves, it is the patter, the misdirection, the ability to make fake moves look real all while making real moves look fake, it is the entire package that is deceptive.....that is why you never telegraph your moves by saying things like "in this trick" or "i am going to" and you also shouldn't do the same thing twice as they will look a different place the second time so you may have fooled them once but not twice....

The audience always has an idea of how everything's done. But if you ask them, it's usually the most outrageously imaginative method possible!

I may have missed the point here, but for me the whole idea of leaving the audience's brains ticking is part of the thrill of magic.

There's pure entertainment in hearing their ideas!

It's the old premise that they know what they just saw cannot be impossible, because you just did it. Therefore, if it IS possible, how on earth was it accomplished.

I have actually heard of tales of people missing an entire show because they spent the whole time wondering and pre-occupied with how the first effect was done.

It's the tiniest of subtle things which can make a difference, and you really do—as a magician—have to switch off your mind to some extent and realise that something which seems so obvious to the learned may actually be a complete gob-smacking effect for the layperson.

Sometimes it takes effort to amaze people, but you would be shocked at how easy it is to get people's cogs whirring by even the simplest thing.

There is yet another angle here which I will get too. But first one of the most difficult things that magicians have to get passed is 'guilt' I may be using the wrong word, but often we (magicians) think things are so obvious yet to the layman they are not. And we tend to feel guilty about that. It always fascinated me when I worked behind the magic counter how I would demonstrate an effect. The customer (usually a magician) would be freaking and make the purchase. Only to come back a few days later to explain to me how lame the effect was and how obvious it would be. It didn't matter that it blew him/her out of the water before he read the directions.

The second issue is the spectator thinking about how an effect is done. I certainly don't mind them pondering, it can add to the excitment of it. While I like to believe most people are stupid in reality they are not. And they know something is up, (usually). And I can't stop them from thinking. What does bother me is when a magician gives a false explanation because one, you are outright lying and have left the realm of entertainment, (just my view, I imagine some find that entertaining) But I am a follower of Doug Henning. I like that sense of wonder. If the audience or audience member believes he knows how the effect is done, doesn't matter if they are correct or not, but that sense of wonder is gone.

Not too long ago I managed to get a full deck of cards in a bottle aka Harry Eng and left it sitting in my cubicle at work. The reactions were interesting but the ones I liked the most were those that picked up the bottle looked at me, looked at the bottle. Tried to theorize then just enjoyed it. The ones that bugged me were the ones that tried desperatly to figure it out. Again I'm looking at it and thinking isn't it obvious? Hell there really is one way it can be done. Most I believe could not get passed the thought that it was just impossible, and failed to make the leap to, "okay obviously it is possible because I'm looking at it and there really is only one way this could happen" Now I am working on getting a sealed deck in the bottle. I know there is a guy in BC doing this and selling them for good money. I have no interest in that, I'm just doing it because I want to see if I can, (I can).

My last point here is, what is the point I am trying to make. I started out with one but now I'm not sure. Ahh the mystery continues.

so i guess in some sense you have to approach your magic as if you are the layman - then you could understand what they would find fascinating about the effect etc

It just concerns me that so many people dont appreciate the entertainemnt and astonishment behind the magic, but rather try to guess everything like its a puzzle - it feels to me that there isn;t so much the sense of astomishment no more, but rather people looking at magic as a puzzle to solve (even though little magic should be seen as puzzles) - I find it hard as a performer to not think that the audience are trying to second guess what you have done - and with the "rise" of exposure on youtube, some many laymen are coming to terms with the mechnaics behind some tricks

It may be me, and im a little skeptical - i have been into magic from a very young age,and before i even learnt to perform magic i was aware of the sleights behind then, i gather this as affected me seeing magic as entertainent, so i have little knowledge as to how laymen percieve the magic.

It just frightens me to see so many people with little intrest in magic spoling the entertainement by trying to find out how things are done.

I know wish i watched more magic when i was younger before i got into it, maybe then i could appreciate how the audience percieve everything

For me, a good example of this kind of thing in action is Dean Dill's Blizzard. Absolute genius. On first reading, there is no way on earth any spectator is going to miss the move when you do it. Yet, in my experience, no one spots it. Ever. I have been performing Blizzard for a number of years now and I have never been caught out. This trick is pure genius and looks totally impossible. The spectator never comments on it afterwards because they're too busy picking their jaw up from the floor.

I'm sure there are other, better examples but this one springs to mind for me. Blizzard is genius at work.

I'd like to bring the recently topical 'Dlites' to the party...

People see them and think "Oh dear, is THAT all it is... bottom drawer then..."

However, used at the right moment in the right circumstance they are a fantastic little bit of magic. Well, OK... so they are'nt 'magic' as such, but as a part of your arsenal, they are symbiotic with many effects.

I think it's all like a lot of things, do something poorly or at the wrong time and you're going to get spotted.

One thing that I've noticed is that if you can put together a good and entertaining performance and you're entertaining your specs you can get away with so much more. It's almost as if they go into a different mindset when they're enjoying a performance and start believing in what they're seeing. This is certainly something that I've found and there are a number of effects that I'd never do early on in a routine because they are so obvious but used latter on and they work amazingly well.

Im probably looking to much into it lol

But i do feel with the growth of uplaoded video websites, (youtube etc) = i do feel that many more people are going to be picking up on sutlties in magic - and it hurts me to know that people who supposidly (spell) enjoy magic and the art of magic are prepared to give away secrets

It can sometimes be seen that magic is a dying art with so many lay people becoming aware of techniques in magic - it will be hard to perform a miracle if they laymen says "oh yea, i seen that on youtube, you used IT, or TT or etc

I suppose my real fustration lies with the exposure....

(sorry for the rant)

if you perform a trick well, and its a reasonable trick...

your audience WILL NOT KNOW HOW ITS DONE.... they can come up with crazy, incredibly complicated ideas but they will not know unless they already know the secret prior to the trick....

Well I'm in a mood so I'm going to point out the obvious. If your audience is not impressed by the magic, if they are spending all their time trying to figure out how the effect is done and not really enjoying the overall magic then perhaps it is time to look at your performance. Obvioulsy if people are watching you and trying to figure out the 'puzzle' then chances are you are performing your magic as if its a puzzle. I can't tell you how many times I hear how everything is exposed. You tube is killing magic. Penn and Teller are evil louts going around exposing everything, the masked magician gave away all the secrets. Blah, blah, blah. Yet magician survive and do really well. I don't like exposure and it sure as heck hurts it does not benefit magic or magicians in any way. Yes I've heard the argument that it makes us think of new effects and new methods. That is such a lame *rse argument that anyone who presents it really doesn't know what magic and magicians are about.

But I'll try to swing back to my original point. I can go down a list of oodles of magicians making a living, making a good living in this business. Hundreds of magicians around the world performing for the sake of performing and thousands if not millions of people enjoying it. Why? Because of the performance/performer. You want a better/different reaction? Change the way you perform.

*breathe*

If however you are only worried about this, and have yet to encounter that type of reaction but only afraid that you will, then there is only one thing to do, go out and perform and see what response you get. Only then you will know. Whats the worst that can happen? You fall on your face and look like a total idiot? Only proves your still human.

When you think how much us magicians have to learn and remember, you forget that someone who is less interested/obsessed by the art will actually take in and store.

For instance, the television news has loads about football and other such boring nonsense but my brain takes none of it in as the information is of no use and interest to me. Most of us watch a film or show and forget much of it other than the parts which interest us the most or resonate with us personally. Casual watchers of 'magic revealed' type shows will remember some of it the couple of days after they have watched it but after time it will become a vague haze to them.

As many good people have pointed out previously, a lot is down to your delivery and performance as much as your technique. I have found that some of the effects which I have laboured over learning haven't received as much a wonderous response as those that we consider too 'easy' and 'obvious'.

Take Rapid Transit, a fairly simple but effect little trick from Royal Road. To many of us it would be dull to perform as it's just so simple and seems easy to work out, but I have performed it as a 'quickie' and slayed people with it.

It does also depend on the individual persons beliefs and how much belief they're willing to suspend. After being asked during a close-up show whether I was clairvoyant, I joked with a woman who expressed such a fear of ghosts she couldn't bring herself to watch Derek Acorah that she had a spirit with her which I went on to photograph using Ghost Vision. Later on I told her it was friendly and would help her and asked her to pick a card and show it to the ghost and the proceeded to perform impromptu Haunted Deck using normal or 'regular' cards and l**ps and told her the ghost had found the card.

She had no idea how all this had happened and could only assume I was telling the truth. Sometimes, as Derren well knows, if you give a bogus explantion that even though supernatural could somehow be plausible, it stops many inquisitive minds from working things out further.

I've found people often look for an elaborate explanation even for 'simple' effects. Taking your sponge balls as an example - despite it being blatantly obvious what is happening if you give it any thought whatsoever, I'm known people look for methods by which you could split the balls by squeezing them. I've also found that if I lack personal conviction in the effect that I'm performing e.g. maybe because I'm nervous - this is when people detect things. It's almost as if you have to believe that what you've explained has happened has ACTUALLY happened. otherwise people smell a rat.

Interestingly I've found the most astute observers are children - I guess because their world experience is limited - they look for the most obvious solution to explain what they've just seen.

Regarding youtube exposure, judging by the 'explanations' that some of the viewers put forward I don't think the magic community has too much to worry about!