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Out of curiosity, how many guyz work as if they have geniune powers? either as mentalists or magicians, or bizarrists?

Any good or bad experiences from someone thinking that you were the real deal?

Would you be offended if someone was obviously a fake but claimed to be real (think Uri Geller, that sort of thing)

Would it increase audience reaction?

Just some thoughts,

Cheers,

Liam.

Thoughts are these:

I'm scientific in my approach to things. Hell, I KNOW that a 5" steel sphere can't float behind a cloth - it's outside the laws of physics.

Unfortunately, my scientific mind, which governs 'if it's not within the boundaries of known physics and can't be proven in test conditions', then I'm afraid I could not purport to have genuine 'psychic' powers.

Sure, I perform mentalism, floating effects, impossible transpositions - but I never EVER hold that 'Blaine' pose - you know the one - where he just 'stares' at the speccy long enough for them to become uncomfortable.

No, I'm sorry. I'm a realist.

It is almost comparable in parallel to actors... wouldn't it be great if Christopher Reeve got out of his wheelchair and flew? Wouldn't it be fantastic if Keanu Reeves could REALLY dodge bullets? How amazing would it be if BA Baraccus and Murdoch could actually construct a fully armoured battle tank out of two tin cans and a MIG welder???

I'm afraid not. The role of the actor STOPS when his PERFORMANCE stops.

Although, there are the comedy 'mentalists', who's powers are taken a bit tongue-in-cheek... think Max Maven!

And then there are the scientific mentalists, like Derren Brown... whose 'power' is derived from not a sixth sense, but from admitted scientific study (and a heck of a lot of excellent acting!)

So, in conclusion: I think there are three categories of 'Real' magic...

1: Like myself, those who perform purely for entertainment. No special powers are claimed - just suggested as part of the patter. But we go home from a performance as just plain old Mr Seige.

2: The Character magicians - like Maven - who maintain their role as being mystical and all powerful on/off stage. Great, tongue in cheek entertainment. Also, I'd stick dudes like Copperfield in this bracket - as he can definately talk the talk and walk the walk - and it's part of his persona.

3: The 'Serious' workers - like Blaine, Gellar etc. who actually try and force one to believe that what they are doing is real.

Personally - I think category 3 sucks. Category 2 are there for their audience, and category 1 are generally just feet on the floor, balls to the wall performers.

In my opinion, presentation is even more paramount to doing mentalism magic, and most recently I have been doing a lot of the items from the Richard Osterlind DVDs which I have learnt from considerably, not just the tricks themselves - but also the subtleties and the performance.

On the 3rd DVD there are a lot of tricks that I already knew about - and yet seeing how Mr. Osterlind approached them and carried them off made me rethink considerably my own performances.

To answer your question, I try and make out that I am for real, mind reading, moving objects telekinetically, bending spoons etc. However, this is for me also very tongue in cheek, after all deep down I know, and I know my audiences know that this is just b*****ks. Of course it isn't for real. I'm trying to do magic, for goodness sake. I am (hopefully) being entertaining, but bend spoons with my mind? get real.

But if I can make someone stop and think, albeit just for a few seconds that "maybe he did read my mind", rather than "that was a clever trick", then I think I am doing a good job. Magic needs it's magic moments after all.

I think the reason the Gellar is so frowned upon, and in my opinion I have lost all respect for him I have as a magician - is because he has never ever (as far as I am aware) owned up to being anything but a psychic perform and I actually find this offensive - not just to my intellect, but to an my sence of being honourable.

Sometimes Derren Brown has had similar criticism, by claiming to do ALL his [later] work with psychology, but to me this isn't the same. Of course during his performances he is selling the psychology angle - it goes back to making people believe just for the split second that he is the real mccoy - it's just that with DB, you believe for a lot longer than a few seconds!

He went up in my admiration alot after the "bullet catch" epsiode, where I heard about an interview he did afterwards - and they surprised him with the Chief of Police from the island - claiming that it was all a hoax. I believe he just said something to the effect of - "well what did you expect, I am an illusionist?" (I will try and dig out an accurate quote later).

(Incidentally I am a really big fan of Derren Browns)

When copperfield did his being sawn in half illusion, it was so great - because for that split second - you thought (well I did) that he was actually trying to escape, and that it had gone wrong and that he was inches from death...

So to sum up, yes - my opinion is that you have to make people believe you are for real during the performance, thats what makes it magic - I think though it's how much you carry on the presentation AFTER the performance that makes the difference.

If asked "where you really reading my mind" - obviously you have to say "yes of couse"- but maybe with a smile or a wink....

sheesh - I really know how to ramble on and on and on and on and on and on...

Ditto all of the above (especially seige's section 3) - but it can vary a lot depending on the audience. If your specs are in lighthearted and joyful mood they probably won't thank you for changing it to darker and more somber so perhaps the tongue in cheek route would be better. If your specs are hanging on your every word and action then perhaps a more serious but possibly self mocking persona might be worth trying?

And if your specs are so into it that they believe you truly are possessed of psychic and supernatural powers them leave the building immediately, don't look back, and never return 'cos you've just had a very lucky escape.

Personally, I find it more comfortable to act as though most of this is a complete surprise to me as well - when the 'right card is revealed in the spec's hand, ask, 'How the hell did you do that?' or some similar phrase. On a couple of occasions some time back I used the excuse that I was studying Magic by correspondence course (this was ages before computers and the Internet!) so, if I did anything which turned out to be really amazing, it was a case of 'Glad you enjoyed it but don't ask me how I did it - that part of the course doesn't arrive until next month.'

As a bit of a warning, I can confess that, due to giving an unfortunate and totally unintentional impression, I once had to give away the secret to a trick and was glad to do it. It was probably 20 years ago or more and I'd just bought a Spirit Hanky (one of Paul Daniel's if I remember right!) and took it along to a Halloween Party at a friend's house. There was, of course, a lot of alcohol and the six or so people there were in a great mood. I decided that this was the time to do a jokey séance type of thing and referred to dear old Houdini's demise as the excuse. Anyway, the hanky thing went well and we all had a good laugh about it. Next day I had a phone call from the girl who's house we were at and she was really upset. Apparently her 9 year old son had crept downstairs and had been watching us idiot adults larking around from the hallway, he had seen the haunted hanky and was convinced that the table we'd used was somehow not right and had refused to sit down for his breakfast or lunch at it. The only thing I could do was go back to the house and talk to the lad but, more than that, I ushered Mom out of the room, took out the hanky and showed him exactly how it was done - much to his relief. He then delighted in showing his Mom the effect and all was well afterwards. It would be good to report that this started him on the road to a successful career in Magic but, the last time I heard of him, he was an assembly line worker in a factory somewhere in Australia!

(So much for one line posts!)

Hahaha! Perhaps the kid already knew, but didn't fancy the vegetables on his plate!!!

It's interesting that a lot of people on here are against directly claiming real powers, ala Geller.

I mean, he is EXCEPTIONALLY successful, in that, if you ask around, you'll find that a lot of people think that he is geniune, albeit to various degrees...

He's rarely mentioned by a layperson as a Magician... think about that.

Has he transcended todays definition of the word? Even now, people in conversation will mention him as being above other magicians... ie "But what about that Uri Geller stuff?"

And a few make the comment that pretending that you are genuine is insulting to your spectators... perhaps you could argue that the OPPOSITE is true?

If they are fooled, for a few seconds, into thinking that you are genuine, perhaps revealing otherwise is insulting to them... ie "How slow I was to think that this was anything other than a trick"

Just some thoughts... please keep posting, i mean, i don't really know what I'm talking about, and I'm not saying that the stuff above is true, right, or even relevant. But if it gets us all thinkin,

It's gotta be good.

Cheers,

Liam.

IMHO Mr.Gellar is a Fakir - I think that's how you spell it - but it sounds like that (thanks, Tom!). He was an average Magician who got lucky. The fact that we're still discussing him (and geezers who spend 44 days in a Tupperware box etc) shows the impact he's had on us all. Mention bending spoons or forks and most folks think Uri Gellar. Mention bending a knife and they just say, 'Huh?'. (Mention bending the truth and they think Jeffrey Archer).

I've seen Uri at Shows and Exhibitions where he's selling his autographs and photos to the public (like so many other 'stars are doing!) but he never bends anything in front of them!

Most of the folks on this forum could easily do an impromptu something or other if requested - and I reckon that shows who the real 'professionals' are. Of course, that's only my opinion!

I think both your phonetic and literate versions of the word were controversially correct - and this statement is made from a personal viewpoint, nothing to do with TalkMagic!!!

As above!

just to smash the mold wide open.

i am a sensitive to use the old vanacular, so when I'm doing card readings I'm for real and when I'm doing magic I'm just doing magic.

but just to muddy the waters between the ages of ten and fourteen i was with a troupe of spiritualists back in the eighties when people wanted to belive, i used subtle techniques blended with actual instances of inspiration.

so when i do a psychic show i dont proffess to be either a magician or a psychic but rather a mix of both in a take what you want from the experience kind of way, sometimes when ive been doing the haunted key which you have to get into the right mindset to do properly ie not thinking i have had impressions about the audience that i tend to voice.
so i have just shown them a trick and told them it eas not ther fault maggie died ? so which am i magician or sensitive??.

Hmm there does seem to be a strong bias against playing it real. For my part I have no issue with playing it real as long as you don't take advantage of those that believe you are genuine by giving any kind of "Physic advice" I have seen David Blaine doing this and admitedly it was designed to be encouragement ie "that special person will always be there for you" but I am strongly against this.

Apart from that you can bend as many spoons, read minds or whatever with "real powers" all day long as far as I'm concerned.

With Uri, I think he is a different case, you know I really think he believes he has got some kind of spiritual powers

When I do any mentalism I do like Derren Brown but that's about it as far as being real is concerned, the rest I doin traditional corny magician style.

When i do my stuff i do it as comically as possible for 2 reasons

1. I dont want to put myself accross as the type of magician who is above meer mortals, people just loose interest if the magician is just showing off

2. It seems more natural to do things as if it has happened by accident rather than if your doing the sawing a lady in half and saying "dont worry i do it every day" as it is not something you would do every day(unless your a surgeon!!!)

Well thats my two cent