Thought for this year...

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Thought for this year...

Postby lmw » Dec 15th, '07, 01:40



I've been thinking ***i know it's bad for you***

I've gone back to basics recently, classic palm in fact it's thanks the great sticky thread on coin work in support n tips section. anyhoo...here I am trying to find something coin sized that feels ok...and admittedly the air is blue as I keep dropping the £2 coin I'm using. The last time I did this I got soooo frustrated I moved on (yes I know c*** (not the best) idea; but you live and learn).

My mind wondered as it does reading posts and a few things trying to work something out...and suddenly there I was back nigh on 15 yrs ago when I first started to learn guitar, long hair (now missing from the picture) and the rest of it, as plain as day the smells the frustration everything but I did it I finally learned the tough old barre chord. A barre chord is one where your index fingers have to basically hold down 2 (a partial barre) or more strings at the same time from that point I took off as far as guitar playing was concerned everything that was difficult I applied the barre chord principle to it; that is break it down to it's component parts and build it up gradually until it becomes second nature; then voila one day it will pop into place.

Obviously I'm not applying the same to my magic hopefully meaning I'll go from strength to strength :wink:

I'm just interested to know what "barre chord principles" there are and what are the names of them? How do/did you get over learning that thing that you thought is / was never going to be possible for you because of the small hands or something else?

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Postby Palmer Eldritch » Dec 15th, '07, 02:29

I've always loved learning skills that involve rhythm, dexterity and coordination. As such I can play many instruments pretty well, was into juggling and gravity toys - and before my knees packed in, I was pretty handy at skating and all that stuff.

What have I learned?

That all things requiring that magical triad of rhythm, dexterity and coordination, share common general principles that aid in learning them.

Repetition is the most obvious of these shared principles; I used to practice DJ-ing for 7 hours a day. At the moment I constantly have a deck of cards in my hand and when I sleep, I dream about cards.

Dreaming brings me neatly to the second principle… Visualisation.
Whenever I struggle to pull something off, I always take a moment to breathe and fully visualise the movements required.
A specific trick I use to teach my not so good hand how to do something, is to first make the movement with my dominant hand and having focussed on exactly how it feels, I immediately try and capture that same motion with my offhand - almost like trying to transmit a sub-routine across the hemispheres.

The third and final general principle for me has always been striking the right balance of relaxation and focus. I have deliberately avoided using the word "concentration" because I feel it has the wrong connotation and does not evoke the spirit of that particular mindset.

And that’s it; my three fold path to the mastery of anything. :lol: It probably all sounded a little precocious but I’m really not trying to present this as some great revelation, just some general methods that work for me. I imagine most people have simmilar idosyncratic approaches to learning things, I'd actually be intrested in hearning about them too.

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Postby Serendipity » Dec 15th, '07, 02:51

Serendipity's top practising tips:

1. Sit down and decide what you're going to be practising. There's no point flitting from thing to thing and never really focussing on what you want to improve.

2. Practise regularly. It's better to do 10 minutes a day every day than 2 hours once a week.

3. If you're having difficulty with a sleight, sit down in front of a mirror and do it as slowly as you can. I mean I'm talking ultra ninja bullet-time slow motion. This'll help you see if what you're doing is smooth, and help you iron out any kinks or sloppy handlings. Then slowly get faster, until you get to full working speed. You'll learn much smoother and better technique this way.

4. If you're having trouble with a palm, start carrying cards round with you in your hands as you're walking about, chatting to people etc. This will help you get familiar with the feeling of having the card in that palm.

Hope that helps.

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Postby LobowolfXXX » Dec 15th, '07, 09:37

Thoughts for the year --

1. Magicians aren't laypeople. This revelation is as simple (and as silly) as it sounds, but it is very frequently either misunderstood or underappreciated. There are two main subpoints.

A. Most magicians are, when shown an effect, overly concerned with method. It's hard to get them to suspend their disbelief, and (so) god help you if the effect you're showing utlizes a plot, etc. Instinctively, I think we generally know this; how silly do you feel going into the explanation of how the four 7's are really four merchant marines lost at sea...all the while knowing perfectly well the only thing running through the other guy's head is, "I'm going to nail him on his pass."

B. Most laypeople (the exception being engineers, and approximately 37% of actuaries) couldn't care less about method. They're into the effect (if it's good). If you can achieve the same effect in their minds with less work, it's all good. It's not a piano recital, where genearlly the audience has an inkling as to which pieces are harder to play. If you killed your audience with the Stripper Deck, and the jerk at the magic club only did so-so with a classic pass he's been working on for 7 years, that's HIS problem, not yours. Nobody cares about his whining (and if you're that guy, it's best you hear it now) except his two friends who have been working on it for 4 and 2 years.

One of the best illustrations of the spectator/magician distinction can be found in the profileration and popularity of many magic videos. Top names in magic release DVDs, and the community goes gaga for them (and I'm not saying we shouldn't). Generally, these are innovators, theoreticians, etc. A good chunk of them, however, are NOT great performers by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not interested in naming names in a public forum, or trashing anyone. That's not the point. The point is that MANY magicians you probably wouldn't recommend to your brother-in-law as entertainment director for the Shriners' Christmas part are REVERED by magicians. Why? Because there's a difference between instructing and routining a series of creations for magicians, who are looking to learn and reproduce an effect, and entertaining laypeople, who are looking to enjoy one.

Of course, there are many, many fabulous magicians whose instructive videos are superlative, and whose performances for lay audiences equally so. Thank you, Whit Haydn. Thank you, Bill Malone. Thank you, David Williamson. Thank you, Michael Vincent...insert your favorites here ____________


Sorry...distracted myself there for a sec. Oh, so please bear in mind that spectator/layperson distinction. Will it fool them? is the primary question if you're performing at the magic shop, or at the club contest; if you're not performing for magicians, though, start with "Will it entertain them?" Only if the answer to THAT question is a resounding yes does the other question come into play. When our magician friends show us something new, when we're impressed, we usually say, "Wow, I was fooled," and I believe that we conflate "I was fooled" with "That was a great effect." At least we who spend a fair amount of time showing our work to other magicians.



Thought for the Year, continue --

2. The method is the starting point.

The internet generation has brought us some good reference material, some brilliant work, etc.; it's also spawned a good host of spoon-fed, mostly intellectually curious performers who didn't pay much in the way of dues and who (probably consequently) don't have as much respect for the art as...well...as they could have.

I don't purport to have any idea how to make anyone a better person, but I do have the ability, from time to time, on a good day, of making people better at particular things. Therefore, if you're in the latter category of magicians I mentioned in the last paragraph, I'm not going to try to change you. That's for people far more quixotic than I. I WILL, however, suggest that there may very well be a general problem with your approach to magic, and one that probably greatly diminishes your performances.

For many of the new-breed (often, but not always, younger) magicians, I have noticed a fairly common thread. I tried to figure out what they had in common that struck me as problematic, and I hit on it. The old-school guys...when they had a clever method for solving a problem or creating an effect, that was where they STARTED thinking. When you're really digging into your art, you notice a TON of problems that demand your attention. "Can we use a regular deck? Yes, but we need a stranger. ok, probably won't be noticed, can the card be taken by the spectator? No, it's gaffed. Can it be signed while held on the face of the deck, so she'll swear she held it? Maybe..."

New breed...they see the video on You Tube..discuss..debate...buy a video...they get "The" answer. "OH, it was a triple lift with a double backer." Trick over. The method IS the trick.

I'm not saying this is a universal attitude; I'm just saying it's way too common, at least in my experience in California in late 2007. The method ISN'T the trick. The method just gets you in the door so you can BEGIN to think about the trick. Everything that comes after the method... that's what separates the move-masters of today from the true masters. ANd if you don't think about psychology, philosophy, misdirection, rapport with the audience...I don't care if you have an invisible pass with no cover or misdirection needed...your're going to stink up the joint. You can do every sleight better than a genuine master of the craft, and still give a far inferior performance. If you want to do something about it, bear in mind at all times, that the method is only the beginning, and it's actually a pretty short beginning; most of the work is ahead.

Just for anyone who finds it applicable.

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Postby Peter Marucci » Dec 15th, '07, 12:31

LobowolfXXX writes, in part: "Magicians aren't laypeople. This revelation. . . is very frequently either misunderstood or underappreciated. . ."

And in that short comment lies volumes of truth. Amen!!!

cheers,
Peter Marucci
pmarucci@cogeco.ca

"Better a man honor his profession than be honored by it."
-- Robert-Houdin
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Postby LobowolfXXX » Dec 15th, '07, 17:37

Ooooops...addendum, re: magicians v. laypeople-

"Designing Miracles," by Darwin Ortiz, not only addresses this point, but offers very specific, practical advice on the implications of this basic truth. One of the very best magic books, let alone theory books, on my shelf.

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Postby storm01 » Dec 15th, '07, 17:42

A few thoughts :-

Why is it considered necessary to nail down the lid of a coffin?~~
Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"?~~
Why is it called lipstick if you can still move your lips?~~
Why is a boxing ring square?~~
Can fat people go skinny-dipping?~~
Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?~~

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Postby Palmer Eldritch » Dec 16th, '07, 15:44

storm01 wrote:A few thoughts :-

Why is it considered necessary to nail down the lid of a coffin?~~
Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"?~~
Why is it called lipstick if you can still move your lips?~~
Why is a boxing ring square?~~
Can fat people go skinny-dipping?~~
Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?~~


1. Better safe than sorry
2. Imagine the outrage; clearly the psychics can see far enough ahead to the point where they are publicly lynched for gross misuse of powers.
3. Actually lipstick is a 2 part epoxy so it will only stick if you kiss someone wearing the catalyst.
4. Because boxers all have brain damage and really cant tell the difference.
5. Yes but only if they ease their bulky frames slowly into the water - no bombing!
6. Because they are lying, cheating, scheming scumbags.

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Postby LobowolfXXX » Dec 16th, '07, 19:05

"Better safe than sorry" would be a better justification for NOT nailing down the lid, at least back in the day. Inadvertently burying people before they'd died was so commonplace that there were periodicals (such as "The Perils of Premature Burial") devoted to it.

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Postby MickyScouse » Dec 17th, '07, 16:52

LobowolfXXX wrote:Inadvertently burying people before they'd died was so commonplace


'Graveyard Shift'

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Postby joecarr14 » Dec 17th, '07, 18:21

sounds fun.. :D

bah humbug...
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Postby themagicwand » Dec 18th, '07, 00:39

LobowolfXXX wrote:Inadvertently burying people before they'd died was so commonplace.

On my headstone I sincerely hope to have one of the following epitaths:

SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUSTED ON XX/XX/XX

or

BURIED ALIVE ON XX/XX/XX

Certainly beats "...after a long illness..."

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Postby IAIN » Dec 18th, '07, 01:14

always been keen on the spike milligan idea "i told you i was ill..."

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Postby Adrian Morgan » Dec 18th, '07, 09:36

LobowolfXXX wrote:A. Most magicians are, when shown an effect, overly concerned with method. It's hard to get them to suspend their disbelief, and (so) god help you if the effect you're showing utlizes a plot, etc. Instinctively, I think we generally know this; how silly do you feel going into the explanation of how the four 7's are really four merchant marines lost at sea...all the while knowing perfectly well the only thing running through the other guy's head is, "I'm going to nail him on his pass."

B. Most laypeople (the exception being engineers, and approximately 37% of actuaries) couldn't care less about method. They're into the effect (if it's good). If you can achieve the same effect in their minds with less work, it's all good. It's not a piano recital, where genearlly the audience has an inkling as to which pieces are harder to play. If you killed your audience with the Stripper Deck, and the jerk at the magic club only did so-so with a classic pass he's been working on for 7 years, that's HIS problem, not yours. Nobody cares about his whining (and if you're that guy, it's best you hear it now) except his two friends who have been working on it for 4 and 2 years.


To me, the ideal audience is the one that appreciates a creative and well-acted presentation, but at the same time is also fascinated by the question of how the effect is possible, in much the same way that a scientist might be fascinated by a phenomenon of nature (this is a more fuzzy thing than the mechanical interest of an engineer). I guess this is because I am that audience, really, and we're all best at relating to people who are similar to ourselves.

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Postby cragglecat » Dec 18th, '07, 21:33

Thanks lobowolfXXX for some very insightful comments. I can never get very excited about effects that are so called 'magician foolers'. All I really care about is does it 'fool' the layperson (without making them feel foolish), is it entertaining and does it leave them scratching their heads. I've seen magicians that use very simply methods that are 10 times more entertaining than others that are able to pull off more 'technical' feats. Maybe I'm just desperately hoping that I don't need a brilliant, invisible pass to be a good magician?! Pass me the Svengali deck :lol:

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