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I was wondering where do you actually learn stage magic?

By that I mean, the big effects, you know the "old school" cut a woman in half, mix somebodys body around and things like that.

And Lance Burton like dove manipulations.

I had a really good example of what I meant just, but it just slipped out my mind >.<

But hopefully someone will know what I mean.
Not trying to learn, but just wondering.

Well, there's lots of options really. You'll probably need to learn a bit of stagecraft and maybe a bit of dancing or something, but the following books and DVDs should help you along:

- Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic
- Tarbell's Course in Magic
- Magic & Showmanship (sorry, I don't know the author)
- Paul Osbourne also has a selection of illusion books
- There are hundreds of workshop plans available for specific illusions, which is probably a good place to look if you know exactly what you want to build

DVDs

- Jeff McBride's 'Magic on Stage'
- Illusionworks Volumes 1-4 by Rand Woodbury

I'm no expert, so I can't help any further, but my psychic senses tell me that a Mr Craig Browning might be able to advise you much better than me...

As far as manipulations go, try and get hold of Lance Burton's FISM winning classic manipulation act if you haven't already seen it, it's bound to be available on YouTube, then you could try

Jeff McBride's 'World Class Manipulations'

Of course, a good grounding in card magic (Royal Road), coin magic (Bobo) will help you there.

Too many times I've seen stage magicians on a stage without a clue as to be on a stage. My advice, take some acting classes, stage, movement etc. As for actually learning the stuff, there are plenty of books out there, or find a stage magician and see if you can work with him/her as an assistant or something.

Bmat hits the nail on the head! Learn stagecraft first; the big box illusions are easy.

The best was is recommended in that post: Become an assistant to a stage performer, either on stage or off. And that's for several years.

Of course, it's going to take several years no matter what, before you are ready to entertain the public.

Paul Daniels advises that anyone seriously intending to do stage magic contact a local theatre, get the names of an independent professional director and pay them to watch your act, criticise and rebuild it. They don’t need to know any magic but their knowledge of the stage and public performance will be as crucial as your knowledge of the tricks and effects. Paul infers that the investment will be repaid many times over in terms of repeat bookings etc.

Anyone that thinks the "Big Boxes are Easy" has never done an illusion show... they are anything but easy!

Before you can deliver any mode of magic well however, learning how to be on stage and make your own presence bigger than the stage, that is the real trick. Doug Henning was just over five feet tall but he filled the room with his presence when he worked. That is what you are looking for, the coaches and EXPERIENCE that can help you reach that status. This will include lots of work with a voice & speech coach as well as what I call a physical director; someone that can help you learn about how you stand and move on stage.

When I was exceptionally young I had the good fortune of having a mother who was a dancer and a grandfather that had worked in Vaudeville so a lot of the "molding" for me came (initially) from within the family and as I moved into the professional realm it came through formal classes in dance, modeling (run-way work) and voice lessons... that might sound strange at first but learning to belt a good show tune will build up your vocal chords and help you learn how to project your voice when you speak.

When it comes to the big illusions you need to brace yourself in that you are speaking about the single most expensive aspect of professional magic and it requires us to do a lot of homework. For an example, if you want to do a Sawing a Lady in Half type bit, which one works best for you?

You must consider the market that is available to you not the venues you dream of working some day. For most of us the Spectator Sawing a.k.a. Harbin Sawing (or the newer Stienmeyer variant) will be your best deal. It is portable and you can get some great mileage out of it. But you aren't going to show separate halves... then again, you don't need a trained assistant helping you.

Climbing up the ladder you have the Thin Model Sawing which allows for the separation of sections, etc. but which one meets your "needs"?

This is where you start discovering all the "little" secrets behind a grand illusion in that you have a multitude of base & cabinet designs to choose from, some delivering strong deception than others. Too, in the case of the sawing, you might want to look at the trade-off issues... a more narrow unit that can fit through the standard door of a public facility won't be a deceptive in appearance.

Bear in mind that the painted finish on a prop is just as important as its construction when it comes to deception and fooling the eye of the audience. To add to this you need to understand both, staging (blocking out how things move on the stage for performance) along side lighting and how set/background elements can add to or detract from each piece. Add to this angle issues INCLUDING OVER HEAD! Many grand illusions have major angle problems!

Believe it or not you will have to learn about costumes as well and which ones work best with a given effect. In many cases you will have to have loose fitting clothing on your assistant in order to make an effect work properly. You must be careful about the colors worn... if you or she wears black and you have a black background, you may find yourself doing a floating head act without meaning to (it does happen).

Get you hands on all the major illusion plan books you can find. I'd start with the yesteryear standards via the old Byron Wells Illusion Plan Books which offer a couple dozen of the original Thayer schematics. I'm not positive but I've heard that Abbott's has created a plan book as well, addressing many of their early year creations. There are the Rand Woodbury and Jim Stinemeyer books and as has already been noted, you will find information in the Mark Wilson & Tarbell collections. The one other collection I'll highly recommend are the Paul Osborne books... thing is, by the time you've completed you study of this list you'll be well on your way to understanding construction & design technique. In the meantime try to get work even in the warehouse, of performers that do big illusions. You'll have to be over 18 in most cases to do this, strong as an ox and graceful in that you may find yourself on stage here and there. It will help to be mechanically inclined and a self-starter that don't mind exceptionally long hours, no social life to speak of and hard (very hard) work.

I worked with big illusions for over twenty years and via my mentor, actually got to "play" with some of the most famous props in magic history (elements of the Kellar, Thurston, Dante and Blackstone shows +) so there's a good chance that I know a bit as to what I'm talking about but I bring this point out for a reason... you see I had access to some huge inventories in my younger days and one of my "jobs" while living in L.A. was to take those starry eyed hopefuls from the Magic Castle Junior's group who wanted to do the big stuff, out to one of the warehouses and let them move props for a day or two... that would usually make them RUN back to the safety of their playing cards & sponge balls. If not, we'd push them through a couple of shows, if they still hung in there that's when the teaching began.

My point is, major stage magic is exceptionally hard work and on top of knowing all that I've listed thus far, you have to be a solid student of sales and business in that 90% of the big magic shows out there are hustle jobs that barely pay for themselves. I can list dozens of names, my own included, of people that kept pushing and barely survived when taking this route. It is a job of passion without any assurance of anything other than lots of sore joints when your older and some fun war stories (memories) about "the day".

Yes, you can make big money with a big illusion act but you must have big money behind you in order to get there. Especially when you consider that stock effects in today's world are retailing at around $10,000.00 each on average let alone "cutting edge" pieces that move into the $25,000.00 up to over $80,000.00 range.

My advice is to start small, take your time and let things evolve. The demand for big illusions isn't all that high now days and I don't expect it's going to see a boon for a while yet... the new "trends" for magic being more a reprise of the yesteryear manipulation and flim-flam styled acts.

and as if by magic...Mr Browning appears with his usual gems of wisdom. Thanks very much Craig, and a very Merry Christmas to you and yours when the time comes