talkmagic.co.uk

Part-Timer wrote:A certain extremely well-known performer used an electronic device in one of his stage shows. It went wrong one evening. I'm told he had to try to bluff his way through the effect.

Gee - I didn't think I was that well known

On a serious note - Equinox failed me one night due to flat batteries - I winged it, got it wrong - but that's Mentalism! Magic has to work every time, Mentalism doesn't.

Also Mental was going to say this...

Totally Mental wrote:I ve seen Markdini do some great mentalism with a pad of paper and folded index card.

Totally Mental wrote:Gee - I didn't think I was that well known

On a serious note - Equinox failed me one night due to flat batteries - I winged it, got it wrong - but that's Mentalism! Magic has to work every time, Mentalism doesn't.

CORRECTION: At least two extremely well-known performers...

Part-Timer wrote:there's no Easter Bunny

Oh bugg......

Mandrake wrote:

Part-Timer wrote:there's no Easter Bunny

Oh bugg......

Buggs bunny you trying to say Mandrake?

Markdini wrote:Buggs bunny you trying to say Mandrake?

That's all, folks!

Mandrake wrote:If I may use that wonderful phrase recently posted by Peter Marucci: Those who believe magic is in the props should take a piano apart and look for the music.

I really like that and its very appropriate... especially as a novice seems to be able to explain what it is people like me supposedly do...

Is it cheating to use a these electronic gadgets?

You bet!

If Telepathy were more dependable I'd use it but for some reason it seems quite vague most of the time... same with Clairvoyance.

All of it is "cheating" be it with billets or some high end contraption. But I can assure you that it does not matter how much money you put into this sort of stuff, it's your ability to use it without people realizing that is what you are doing... it is your ability to execute a "trick" and in the process, invoke belief from your audience that sustains the idea that you are legitimate and not some weekend magic buff trying to pull the wool over their eyes.

I've watched people drop hundreds of thousands of dollars on a John Gaughan Magic Kit for their kids only to discover that their kids hadn't the talent to pull it off... Mum's & Pop thought just like everyone does... if you have the expensive box, anyone can do it... that's not so. There's a huge difference between watching Joe Blow doing an Aga Levitation and then watching Richiardi present the Broom Suspension... Joe Blow goes through the motions he has seen every other magician do when presenting the floating lady... Richiardi delivers a miracle!

Devices like UFO, Thumper, and Cerebro are only as good as the individual or team working them... that's it!

I will point out a couple of important things when it comes to this kind of stuff however...

1.) If you are going to depend entirely on such a device, you must have two of them... a back-up unit in case the main unit fails. I know of acts that actually wear two receivers and have a 3rd unit in back up.

2.) Though these pieces are battery dependent there are a few that required house electric... what do you do when there is no power?

I know of acts that had thousands tied up in electronics but were unable to perform when the power went out... one such team nearly got lynched by a room full of very upset patrons demanding their money back.

So yes, you do need to know the classic stuff, using your gadgets as a means to punctuate things... but if you think all I need is a little pencil to do my job... you haven't a clue as to what mentalism is all about and probably shouldn't be voicing such a strong opinion.

There is not a single magic trick I can think of that doesn't involve cheating, except those long-winded (and in my opinion utterly tiresome) self workers that rely on maths.

As magicians, our job is to entertain people by deceiving them. As Eugene Burger says in one of his lectures (I forget which one) the entertainment must always come before the deceit, otherwise you are simply making fools of your audience.

And that's the point. As long as what you do is entertaining, what does it matter? If you rely on gimmicks and gadgets for your effects then there are always going to be a few sleight of hand purists who will turn their noses up at you, but that's their problem. You only need worry about what your audience thinks.

If I weren't a poor student I'd happily spend vast sums of money on an effect if I knew it could blow audiences away in the setting I perform magic in. I wouldn't care if it didn't involve a single sleight or move, because the audience doesn't see any of that, the spectator never goes "What a good use of the Tenkai palm", they only see the magic, and what is more important?

What an poignant and fast-growing thread! 3 pages in a matter of a few hours?

It reminds me of developments in the music industry round the late 70s and early 80s (I can "just" about remember ha!).
With the advent of computer technology came synthesisers, sequencers and drum machines. And there were some comments at the time about how such devices would put "real" musicians out of business.
"Why use a drummer when a drum machine can keep perfect time and not have a nervous breakdown or a drug problem or need paying at the end of the night? The art of the drummer is obsolete!"
Is it true?
Technology in music has affected the music industry for sure, and less musicians get booked for sessions when jingles can be knocked up in a home studio bedroom set up. But this is on the lower budget end of things.
The Human League using a drum machine and sequencer is going to sound a lot different to some snotty teenage kid whose rich parents have bought him a home studio.
Sorry if this is straying a bit but I do think the parallels are a little interesting.

Craig Browning wrote:a back-up unit in case the main unit fails.

I'd change that from 'if' to 'when' the power fails because if something somewhere can go wrong, something somewhere will !

Magic in particular and entertainment in general is somewhere you can cheat, mislead, lie your head off and deceive and even though the audience know you're doing it, they won't (or shouldn't) care because it's done for the right reasons. As I've mentioned before, if a seductive singer starts crooning about how she loves you truly madly and deeply, you shouldn't be surprised to find he/she doesn't really mean it and it's just part of an enjoyable item of entertainment.

Whilst I'm on this magic/music analogy I do find it interesting about the way the world works...
Eric Clapton will probably play a guitar worth thousands of pounds. But having said that Eric Clapton could probably make a £20 guitar sing like you wouldn't believe. And he probably gets the expensive guitar free anyway because the manufacturer wants to see their guitar in his hands. Whereas the geeky teenage kid is saving up to buy a modest guitar and he won't even be able to play it anyway.
I like to call this unfortunate syndrome, "The Inertia of Life". It is tempting to say it sucks on many levels but it IS the way the world works.
This is a kind of Clapton/Copperfield analogy. Ha!
I am probably annoying loads of people with my music comparisons but "tuff" you can all go and whinge in that dire "repetition repetition" thread! (that I can't stop reading)

Actually the guitar thing isnt bad. Give two magicians a Billet told to do the same effect they will but some one will like one more then the otherones effect even though its the same.

How many people have played stair way on fenders? some good some bad.

Abraxus once said in a pm. We could both work the same audiance some would love me and some would love him its just the way it goes.

Johnny Wizz wrote:I don't know much about the prop you are talking about but I could if I wanted probably afford to buy it.

Lend us a tenner mate!

i like the music analogy , and you are completely correct , thats exactly what im saing could happen to magic .
live music is dead and buried in comaprison to what it used to be . bars and clubs only have to employ one person "mc" to play a lot of electronic tripe to them ..instead of paying a band to play real music ..
synthesizer can empower a true musician , but can also render him somewhat obsolete when relative noobies can come up with astounding results by using samples of other peoples songs etc..
factoid
did you know james brown is the most sampled man in the world
and also known as the hardest working man in showbusiness