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Crowded London commuter train last week. Seat by window - male, seat next to it and next to passage - female. Passage full of people standing (Welcome to London!).

Girl standing tells female that she is faint and needs to sit down. Female turns to male by window to pass this on. Male obligingly gives up seat but complicated as female now has to get out of her seat to let him out, before getting back by window so girl could sit. The train is packed.

Something wrong here!

b-b-b-b-but im a girl - you can't expect little ol' ME to give up my seat...

meh...

manners on the tube/train make me puke...

there's this big fat misery of a woman that gets on my tube, she ALWAYS tries to push in front of everyone to get her hairy elephant like bottom into a seat before anyone else who's been standing there for much, much longer politely...

she just rushes on like there's free sweets stuck to the seats...

if only...hmmmm...sweets...

then she glares and tuts at anyone who gets the better of her...i've now made it my duty to block her off being a fair sized lump myself...i dont mind standing and missing my place if it means she has to stand up or even better miss the train all together...

the only time i've ever really lost it though, was when i say a guy push a pregnant lady out of the way to try and get on a tube...i pushed him in the gut back off the train and let the woman on safely...the genius timing of it all was she got on, got a seat and the door shut in the bloke's angry red face...

aaahhh sweet justice...

abraxus, have you been on the cheap plonk again? Your last couple of posts are decidedly merry in tone.

abraxus wrote:...the only time i've ever really lost it though, was when i say a guy push a pregnant lady out of the way to try and get on a tube...i pushed him in the gut back off the train and let the woman on safely...the genius timing of it all was she got on, got a seat and the door shut in the bloke's angry red face...

Ah, so you are the chivalrous knight in shining armour, after all.

Seriously, some people are so rude it makes me want to give them a slap round the chops. Rude people is a pet hate of mine. I'm so glad I no longer have to work directly with the public again; people have no manners anymore.

I think abraxus has been drinking prat-juice.

It's a fact that attractive females can use their physical assets to get what they want, but the only reason they're able to do that is because there are so many men out there who are lecherous, slavering dogs.

If you see a five pound note on the pavement and you bend over to pick it up so eagerly that you brain yourself on a bollard, don't blame the person who dropped the cash for your concussion.

I'm reminded of the tale of a completely obnoxious, rude and annoying man who staggers around an entire nightclub trying to chat up every single woman in the place, and getting turned down on every attempt. After he's zig-zagged through the whole female clientelle and managed to disgust every single one of them, he staggers back to his friend at the bar and says "Unbelieveable! Every single one of them lesbians!"

I do think some girls take the *, but I'm happy enough to play the chivalrous part. My gf is quite feminine and pretty slim, my parents find it hilarious that she wheels her luggage down the drive way and then stops and waits for me to pick it up and hurl it in the car - I don't mind though, she's good at travelling light (probably because one pair of my jeans weighs about the same as a week of clothes for her) and I'd rather she err on the side of being traditional than barging me out the way telling me "I can do it myself, thank you very much" whenever I try and be a gentleman

I like to think I'm a gentlemen... holding doors... giving my seat to old ladies, young mums and preggers mcgreggers... carrying buggies down steps... However, I'm not a total sucker (I like to think). If there's a genuine need of a bit of chivalry, fine, but if some manipulative lass is just giving it the eyes because she can't be bothered to have a go at something, forget it. Ladies, there's nothing we guys like to see more than you trying and failing at something and needing our help, so don't just stand there - struggle!

Chivalry died with feminism.

Any woman who is willing to stand there and tell me that she doesn't need me to buy the shopping because she has her own job and own money can go and take a running jump when it comes to opening doors.

Go ahead love - you have your own hands after all!



Now that my bitching is over - I believe myself to be quite chivalrous when it comes to my girlfriend - although i think the word "chivalry" should be replaced with the word "kind".

If she is struggling to jack up a car for example, I'll come and help. If she is ill and it genuinely is more than just laziness that makes her ask me to get her a drink then I will.

However, if she tries to take the * by asking me to do something (carrying her bags usually) without even trying to see if she can do it, or asking me to get her a drink when she is a full 10 feet closer to the kitchen than I am, she too can take a long walk off a short pier.

EckoZero wrote:i think the word "chivalry" should be replaced with the word "kind".

I totally agree with that. There would be no need for any sort of etiquette "rules" if everyone was just a decent person. I've held loads of doors open for people - I always glance behind me when I'm leaving shops to see if there's someone following me out because it's rude just to let the door close in their face, but equally I'd expect someone to do the same if I was following them out.

Anyway, there are much more subtle ways of getting exactly what you want than just batting your eyelids and looking lost

did stanley milgram not do some experiments about obedience and getting subway seats (i know he did the electric shock one tha DB done for heist).....interesting reading if anyones well interested. Though id advise getting the actual journals than from a bog standard psych text (bernstien, hayes, gross etc)

spudgun wrote:did stanley milgram not do some experiments about obedience and getting subway seats?

Was that the experiment where someone asked people to give up their seat and correllated it against people accompanied by a man in uniform asking them to give up their seat?

That's just basic social compliance, surely, since giving up a seat doesn't have any sort of consequence. It would be different if a man in uniform asked you to stab yourself in the wink-wonk.

oppps I started something off there didn't I?

I was obviously joking and would never even think to use my girly charms to get served quicker in at the bar.

I think it's just politeness and manners, if someone looks like they're struggling with their bags, than it would be very nice for someone to give him/her a hand. There's far too much selfishness in the world at the moment, it'd be so much better if we all helped each other.

I saw an old man struggling to push is rather lage, disabled wife up a slope at the train station the other day. He was obviously in trouble but no one offered any help. I offered, she was too heavey for me but between us we got her up to the top and I had a cup of tea and a cake bought for me at the cafe for my troubles. It really didn't cost me anything to show a little kindness and I got to meet a couple of really lovely people because of it.

It seems so much worse in London, everyone's in too much of a rush to think about anyone else.

Try this, next time you see someone who needs help, doesn't matter if they're young or old, male or female, just stop and offer them a hand. It'll only take a minute or two out of your life.

queen of clubs wrote:

spudgun wrote:did stanley milgram not do some experiments about obedience and getting subway seats?

Was that the experiment where someone asked people to give up their seat and correllated it against people accompanied by a man in uniform asking them to give up their seat?

That's just basic social compliance, surely, since giving up a seat doesn't have any sort of consequence. It would be different if a man in uniform asked you to stab yourself in the wink-wonk.

yes but when you look at some of his experiments in conjunction with his teacher/learner shock thinhy experiment you see how far obedience can be taken (plus if i remember rightly he was trying to explain how nazis like eichman could be black affronted by the holocoust yet still play key roles in it)....in that one 64% of people shocked the learner until they could realistically be dead, so there is a consequence! In the subway one people were also asked to give up there seat and then watched whilst the person took their seat and started reading a magazine (sort of pushing the boundaries of their social compliance).....anyhoo more importantly whats a wink wonk

I'd just like to say that playing dumb works wonders in all of life, Even with other men im not sure about the UK.But in the US I find some of the best help is blue collar men will stop and help other blue collar men. But if your in a suit and jacket and with a nice sports car your SOL. But if your in some sweat pants grease on your face and your car is 20 years old with one rim. That old pick up truck always seems to stop. So really its middle class and rich men help pretty women. But poor people help out other poor people.

spudgun wrote:anyhoo more importantly whats a wink wonk

It's a deliberately vague and unisex word designed to not get me in trouble with the establishment. But trust me, you wouldn't want to stab yourself in it.

queen of clubs wrote:

spudgun wrote:anyhoo more importantly whats a wink wonk

It's a deliberately vague and unisex word designed to not get me in trouble with the establishment. But trust me, you wouldn't want to stab yourself in it.

and here was me thinking you were an outspoken,anti establishment socialist, anti zionist, crazy bint

its ok tho so am i (cept for the bint part)

spudgun wrote:and here was me thinking you were an outspoken,anti establishment socialist, anti zionist, crazy bint

Shhhhhhh!!! The walls have ears! Careless talk costs wink-wonks!!