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The pictures are what confused me. I thought the book was performing....

that we should only have 5 of 6 effects that we ever perform

Balls to those Magicians then!

Totally disagree the more you know the better you are!

It like learning any topic, the vaster areas of knowledg you have is better than consentrating on one part of it....

I would rather have a broad knowledge of general history than just knowing about greek history in the 1500's or sumthing to that effect!

I'l have to say I dont think you need a small repetoire at all...I know of thinking about it, 15 or so strong impromptu card tricks; a similar amounr of coin tricks and various tricks with a stack/prearanged/gaff being used. I like to think I know them well, including routining of them-as long as I know where to insert misdirection, then when Im talking I will do..From my point of view, if you just do your routine as your talking and having a laugh with someone, then it flows quite easy from one thing to another. Most people just want to see a few highly visual things that they can tell their friends and family about and maybe a souvenir or 2. I doubt the average layman would go home and tell his family: "Well, he did a couple of card tricks, but then he ruined the flow by doing a coin trick in the middle"
Cheers,
Dave

queen of clubs wrote:Why, though?

Good things come in small packages? I think it's better to do a few things you enjoy really well, rather than a lot of things you don't enjoy not so well.

I always find this idea very interesting. What I've found myself is this, when I started out I learnt lots of tricks and was alway putting together new routines. This was mainly, I think down to the fact that I was performing for friends and needed new material every time I performed.

Since I've been doing more paid performances, I'm finding that my performing repetoire is getting smaller and smaller as I tend to concentrate more and more on those routines that work best.

I still love to learn new ideas and still put together new routines, but when performing for new audience, I tend to stick to the same 3 or 4 routines.

The above post by Lomster reflects my thinking exactly; I seem to have two repertoirs - one for family and friends, one for 'public' performances.

My friends always ask if I have anything new. This was easy at first - everything was new and I always had fresh material. Nowadays though I rarely have anything new for them.

One of the things that I find interesting even if it is a bit of tangent. But I have about 4/5 effects that I have from when close to when I started doing better effects than the 4 robbers sort of thing.

They're just the usual classics of ACR, triumph, red hot momma etc. Even though I have learnt plenty others these still always stay with me and I still perform them constantly.

I may have learnt the mechanics of plenty of other effects. But I have had plenty of real world experience with these small amount of effects. Which helps greatly in knowing about timing, presentation and when knowing to let the effect set in.

I guess my point is that it is one thing to know the mechanics of an effect and regurgetate to a spec. But it is another to know an effect inside out and how to completely sell it to your audience. Something which can only be down personal experience and developement of the effect.

I think alot of magicians Know 100s of tricks and can robably do most of them in their sleep, but, doing all 100 to the extent of blowing an audiences socks off is probably not the case.
I know quite a few effects, but, when Im out and about I use the 3/4 that I can do really well (The ones that I always practice and think suit me).

And the thing about only knowing 6 tricks is David Devant, its in the intro of the RRTCM

doing all 100 to the extent of blowing an audiences socks off is probably not the case

Im one of the lucky few then


just kiddin

Okay, so you need an operation and you have a choice of two surgeons.

Surgeon #1 says, "Yes, I can do this operation for you. I do hundreds of different kinds operations so I'm really good at cutting all kinds of different stuff apart and I can assure you that you'll be okay because I've done this particular operation a few times."

Surgeon #2 says, "Yes, I can do this operation for you. It's the only kind of operation that I do and I've done this particular operation hundreds of times. I specialize in this."

Which do you choose?

Of course, you may be wondering why I would compare a surgeon to a magician...Seems rather trivial by comparison, really. To my way of thinking, it's not. To my way of thinking, this is exactly why magicians are considered second class - because we think of ourselves that way, anyway.

Nevertheless, let's take two troupes of actors and their work:

Troupe #1 does the same play, day after day, week after week, year after year and only changes their play once it's run its course.

Troupe #2 presents a different play every week.

Which troupe do you feel is going give the best, most polished performance? I would suggest that troupe #2 is going to suck eggs and won't last very long at all.

Is it not better excell in a few things rather than be mediocre at many things? Jack of all tricks but master of none - is this what we should aspire to?

A guy or girl learns the Elmsley count, shows it three or four times, then moves onto the next sleight so that he/she can know hundreds compared to a guy/girl who learns the Elmsley then proceeds to use it over and over and over and over, every chance they get, in every effect that they can find in which to use it - who will be better at the Elmsley count, do you think? Which of the two will have an Elmsley that will pass right by even another magician and which will have an Elmsley that most laymen will catch out?

Too many irons in the fire can put the fire out.

Get good at one thing and be better than everyone else at that one thing. It is a paraphrase, but it is the advice that Vernon gave to Goshman. When you hear the name Goshman, the first thought in your mind is sponge balls. Goshman took Vernon's advice. Had Goshman not taken the advice and continued to learn hundreds of different things, he would be just another obscure name that only a few historians know about...

Why do teachers teach only one or two subjects? Why not have one teacher for everything? Why is a Ph.D. so hard to come by?

Not us magicians, though. We know hundreds of tricks. We don't need to achieve excellence in one or two things, we simply need to know hundreds of things - none of which we may say that we are the masters of and the reason why there is no formal college for magicians. Hell, even actors can specialize in their industry and be given awards where the entire community of actors pay tribute. In a loose interpretation, we have the too in magic, but nothing like actors, who have schools (REAL schools) and will be chosen for specific parts in movies and plays based on that education.

A mediocre performer who excels in a few tricks will always be better than an exceptional performer who is mediocre in hundreds of tricks.

Mike.

The surgeon/consultant analogy occurred to me too, Mike (excellent post, by the way).

Also a corporate lawyer handling the acquisition of a company, rather than giving it to the bloke on the High Street who wrote your dad's will, or getting a plumber in to sort out your new boiler, rather than letting Barney Bodger the bargain builder have a bash at it.

Part of the argument in this thread stems from (I think) a misunderstanding:

Knowing how a trick works is not the same as having performed it (I've read many descriptions for effects where I have never done the trick). It might not even be the same as being able to perform it.

Being able to do a trick is not the same as being able to do it competently.

Being able to do a trick competently is not the same as being able to do it well.

Being able to do a trick well is not (necessarily) the same as being able to perform it well.

Being able to perform a trick well is not the same as being able to perform it brilliantly.

Being able to perform a trick brilliantly is not the same as having mastered the trick.

Most magicians, including David Devant in his time, are aware of how to do dozens, or hundreds, of tricks. It doesn't mean they know them inside out, in the way Devant used the word 'know' in that famous quote.

Really good advice from everyone - thanks!!

I got out a notepad and jotted down all the effects I'm currently happy with and have performed numerous times with good results. There's actually not as many as 20. Of course, I wouldn't say I've "mastered" them, just that I'm happy with them (with plenty of room for fine-tuning!).

Here they are in no particular order for anyone who's interested:

- Chicago Opener (My own handling)
- Card at Chosen Number (Basically just a glide with patter)
- OOTW (Derren's handling, naturally)
- Tivo 2.0 (My own handling)
- Pass at Red (Roy Walton from RRTCM)
- Sandwiched Selection (Various handlings depending on mood)
- ACR
- Royal Flush Demo (I deal myself a royal flush in spades)
- Photographic Memory (My own invention with words on cards)
- .PERFECTION (Oz Pearlman - possibly best effect I've ever seen)
- Two Card Hunt (Two specs pick a card, I find both elaborately and with surprise transpo ending)
- Lie Detector (I guess their selection correctly by asking yes/no questions and deciding if they're lying or not)
- Time Machine (This uses the same basic sleights as Tivo but lasts longer and has a story)
- ID (Similar to Bill Malone's performance but with smaller boobs)

I don't really have a routine order because I'm not a performer, just a hobbyist, so I just generally do 3 or 4 of those if people are interested enough to watch me.

i would say then queenie to see if you can link say 4 of your faves together - see it as a challenge...

some of yours will gel together superbly, others would jar completely...

ID
card at any number
perfection
OOTW

would be the ones i personally would link together, and in that order...

i know you love your cards, and i recommended you a book the other day - but as you love derren so much and fancy a did towards mental-magic, drop me a pm and i'll send you a little list of books or cheap effects from a certain under used site...

i think you'd love basil horwitz for instance...

Here's a different perspective on this topic that I recently read about in Transformations by Lawrence Hass.

Firstly, magic should be about showing your audience something that is really astonishing rather than something that is just puzzling to them.

However, too much astonishment will push their comprehension too far and there is then a danger of your audience turning off which then kills the magic. It is at this point that the audience start to think about the possible explanations and if they fix on an explanation, even though it it likely to be the wrong one, then the magic has just become a puzzle.

Seasoned performers know this and fill their presentations only with rich content that has different textures. This means that less is more and it keeps your presentation magical.

If you perform one impossibility after another then pretty quickly this will wear your audience down. The human mind can only take so much wonder before it begins to lose interest.

Great book - highly recommended and it has certainly made me re-think my performance through.

Norm Neilson, if you don't know who he is look it up, you should know. There are very few major stages around the world he has not performed on at least once. His routine is 8 minutes long.

There are things only experience can teach. Performing for friends, family and friends of friends of family teaches to one level, in front of strangers is yet another level, and finally getting paid to perform teaches at another.

One has not mastered an effect until you have done it live in front of a paying audience under varying sets of circumstances. I'm not sure why there is a difference if you are not being paid but there is, at least for me. More pressure I suppose. It is far to easy to mess it up, and shrug your shoulders and get the heck out if you are not being paid. You are not really accountable to anyone in that situation, "You get what you paid for"

Always leave your audience wanting more.

More does not equal better (although I'll take my chances if somebody wants to give me more money).

What does this have to do with your question? Yes there is lots of sound advice here and I agree with almost all of it. Yes, learn as many effects as you can as you will end up going through a ton of material until you find the 5 that will become your signature pieces. But really it is only something experience will teach.

And as an aside Queen of Clubs I've seen some of your work and I'm already a fan and I think you will figure out all the performing as it comes around.