talkmagic.co.uk

Hey guys!

I am working on the Pavel, Super Walking Knot for a magic competition (Tannen's Magic Camp Senior Stage Division) and have just been trying to tighten everything up. I don't have a video of me performing just yet (i guarantee there will be one up on youtube with a link here in the next 24 hours) however i would appreciate any and all advice. Whether you know the trick or not. If you do know the method behind the effect, shoot me a PM on top of your post if you have the time and energy to do so; and if you do not know the method, let me know that you don't and also just tell me what you "saw" happen and where any weak/suspicious points were.

I really appreciate this guys (and gals)!
~David Rysin

P.S...A hello to all my old friends and acquaintances!

YOUTUBE LINKS:

Video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBAV01X6RNY
Video 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tCT0crRNWY
Video 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYkN5O5aWeQ
Video 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHPc9CyRvxk

Try to watch as many as you can, it'll only take you about 15 minutes.

Oh, and the clapping in this is for when there is a large enough audience to get people clapping in rhythm for the climax. Also, there are random bursts of Russian which are explained in the comments and also me talking to someone at the beginning and end of video 4...that is, obviously, not part of the act.

Thanks,
~David

I'm not sure what you are asking. I can't comment on the weak points and strong points because I have yet to see you perform. The effect in itself is just an effect, you create the points.

But I'll attempt to answer anyway, (and yes I know the effect well and how it works. I've sold many of them, even at the extraordinary high price)

Super walking knot by Pavel is an excellent effect and is competition ready. But every effect is competition ready. The question becomes are you ready, have you practiced it. Have you made it your own, changed it significantly enough that you are not simply going to copy what Pavel did with it. The weakest point for me in this effect is magicians tend to go on way to long. You don't have to cut and restore the rope a zillion times. Remember less is more.

Strong points, great effect for audience participation lots of room for presentational ideas.

Keep in mind it is a cut and restored rope. Granted the spectators choose where the rope is cut and the rope is cut at that spot, you slide the knot to where the spectator chooses and untie the knot and that is now where the cut is. Absolutly remarkable but try to think of it from the audience perspective it is just a cut and restored rope routine. It is you who has to make it remarkable.

Tips on performance I can't really give without giving too much away, but my tip would be obvious to you anyway.

Good luck, have fun and it is a great choice of effects.

Hi Bmat,

Thank you for the help and the kind words. Just to clarify however, I will be posting a video shorty so that you can comment on the weak and strong points. I made the thread before I had created and uploaded a video to youtube so that I would not forget to come on here and ask for advice.

I will be going to a senior citizen's home soon to perform this effect, and will video tape it there. A video will be on youtube very soon.

Sorry for the confusion Bmat,
~David

So you'll be at Tannen's? I'm going myself, and I was looking into doing the competition, but all I've got planned is a spongeball routine... Oh wait I'll be in a close-up section won't I? Anyway have you been before, and if so what do people normally do for the close-up?

Yea, you'll be in the close-up section. I've never been there before so I can't tell you much about it...but I can tell you that, generally speaking, as long as the routine is original you'll be Ok.

Oh and, all videos have been uploaded!

Do you have to do the dance moves? It looked really self-conscious to me.

The background being the same colour as the rope doesnt help and I must admit I'm not to sure about the dancing either.
As far as I can see technically it seems fine.

I think i am right in saying that Pavel created this as a patter trick.

its got to be much slicker .


( i saw the first performance of it here in the uk, many , many moons ago!!)

today, I only ever remember the late topper Martin when i see this trick.

as background, this trick was Pavells practical one man answer to an effect created by Paul " out of this world" Curry.

the original effect, Curry's "The Sliding Knot" can be found in currys book,
worlds beyond.

Audiences are not interested in magic effects. They want to be entertained. You're just showing them a magic trick, from what I watched.

How can you make this entertaining?

Never think that the effect itself is entertainment enough.

It's not. The most you'll get is polite applause.

So how can you make it entertaining? Can you list some specific ways?

The contrast between the rope and the wall has been addressed, just make sure you know what color of backdrop you'll be performing in front of and change your rope color accordingly.

As for the performance, I think a major issue is that there is too much concentration to syncing with the music, and not enough on the climaxes in the effect.

Let's bust the effect down, what happens? You cut a rope in two and retie it, then you add a clothespin. This is the important bit - you then move the knot, untie it, and show that the two ropes are different lengths than they were.

The bold is where YOUR emphasis should be, however it's lost. In vids 1, 2, and 4 the knot is moved almost in an incidental manner and the impact of it is lost; the knot move in video 3 was better. To me it seems this is because you are trying to make sure it syncs up with the "AH-AH-AH" (or whatever) part of the soundtrack - which is a nice touch, but more important is that you sell the fact that you just fairly tied a knot, then MOVED the knot which was the ends of the ropes TIED TOGETHER.

Now you untie it and show the two lengths are unequal. This is another huge deal but it seems glossed over. You go on to swing the rope to sell that the rope is now completely separated, this is important- but first you need to sell the fact that the ends have changed lengths.

Dance, rinse, repeat.

So get back to what the effect is about and make sure you let your audience realize what happened and let that sink in - your music sync doesn't really provide enough time for applause either as you have to set up the next clothespin and move the next knot.

Another note, toward the end you try to rally your audience to clap. This can be a fun touch that gets your audience involved, however you start prompting them too early. In the forth video I timed it and clapped along, you had me clapping for 40 seconds which is really too long. It gets boring and tiresome at that length of time - no longer fun and engaging. At this length of time areas of your audience may have lost the beat as well and end up stopping or just applauding, which will drain energy and kill your final climax.

In all, it's a really solid start and I don't mean to sound too negative. Maybe adjust the music, find the points of the trick that should be amazing and emphasize them, and try to keep your own energy up and it will invigorate your audience.

Good luck.

Thanks for all of the advice guys!

What was pointed out by a fellow magician of mine that was that I did not really have a character. So I have been tirelessly working on this and believe that the character in himself has made the effect more entertaining and makes the dramatic moments that I tried to create just by synching moves to the music actually make sense.

So, a LOT has changed in the routine. And since I cannot really re-film (it was shot where my grandparents live and I cannot really get over there again) I will try to convey through text some of the differences.

I have created sort of a suave character that is perceived by the audience that he can impress any woman in the audience. He cuts the rope in two, throwing one end aside, and twirling the other, as if looking around for someone when he notices the other end of the rope lying on the floor. He gracefully walks over to it, and picks it up and ties it to the other end of the rope. He places a clip on the rope (not yet sure of how to do this, yet staying in character) and during the same beats of the music, head held high and facing the audience, the knot starts to move. He walks along with it until all of a sudden he cant go any further and notices that there is the clip in his way. So he decides that he's gone far enough, and unties the rope and walks away from it. He starts twirling the rope again, looking for someone else, but then notices that same rope again and gracefully walks back over to it, once again the rope is tied, another clip of contrasting color is place, same thing happens, the knot has moved and he looks down and notices the clip is blocking his path. So he decides to untie the rope, and walks away from the shorter end, starts twirling and looking around again. Notices the rope one last time, ties it one last time, and moves it to the center where red sparkling confetti is poured over the rope (no clapping) and the rope is showed to be one whole piece again.

The ends of the rope in my opinion represent two people, when tied form a relationship, and as they move along the rope (time/space) they hit a snag they cant get past and realize that they are not meant for each other so they separate. This happens again with the second tying and untying. And with the third tying, the red confetti is poured over the rope (red like love, and shiny to show well on stage) and rope is shown as one (the two people have come together as one).

And as weird as it may sound, I have created a character, a story, and therefore all moves now make sense.

Also, I have gotten rid of the clapping, and I'm pretty sure that dance moves do not fit with my character so those will be gone too. Finally, as mentioned there will be red confetti.

Mr. Tyler brought up a good point too, and I will try to put a lot more emphasis during the magic moment in a way that will make everything bold, yet still fit my character (however I don't think that should be a problem because my character is bold).

Thanks for all your help guys and please keep the ideas coming!
~David

seems like there is room for some comedy in there.
when you try to pick the rope back up... is it hard to get to?

when you put the clip on the rope. does it clip your jacket by mistake and you realize it when you start to walk away from it?

are you trying to be suave but it ain't quite working?

when you cut the rope do you cut yourself? does a finger drop to the floor that you have to kick away or pick back up and put back on?

when you drop one and twirl the rope, should you first twirl both ropes and realize it looks like a vegas stripper twirling her bra tassels and in the shock of that you accidently drop one of the ropes?

If you're a real SUAVE guy already then suave might work. If you're not, then perhaps trying to be but not quite cutting it could work to your advantage.

Good idea taking out the clapping. That was incongruous at best.