talkmagic.co.uk

I'm new so please be patient with all my questions and comments. So to make replies easier I'll just number all of my questions

1.) My biggest stutter with my spectators is when they say something to the effect of: "Lemme see you other hand", "Can you do it again?", "Can I see your prop" I don't know how to politely answer them no, without giving up the trick itself. Examples: They always want to see my other hand during a Vanishing trick, Some tricks I can't do again without preparation (Self Tie'in Shoestring) others (Levatations) I don't want to do more than twice, and they want to see the cups (Cups'N'Balls) before I repeat the process. How do you kindly say they're a one-time bang?

2.) This guy does a trick I would like to learn how to do: http://www.expertvillage.com/video/1433 ... -trick.htm Ok, here are my thoughts on how it's done and why: The first time I watched this (when I began learning) I was amazed and never payed attention to his hand that doesn't move much, like he plans for. As I watched the clip over and over, the best thing I can guess is (about 1:17 into the clip) he drops his right hand under the table a little while the left distracts the audience. I assume that is where the Beta was grabbed. Now if you look closely (about 1:40) when he pours out the fish, his hand is dry (thus he doesn't grab into a bowl for the fish) also when the fish comes out of the hand so does a little bit of water. So my overall conclusion goes: The fish is prepared before he ever starts the show. The fish is actually kept in a small glass/plastic vile/bag and hung on the back edge of the podium. When it is time for the trick he can grab the vile (1:17) then pours the fish out along with the water from the vile (1:40) then he drops the vile right after the fish is in the water. Any ideas?

3.) On this trick http://www.expertvillage.com/video/1432 ... -trick.htm I assume the ball is in the bag the whole time, thus it has to be unfolded the whole time. In the back, which he never reveals, there is a slit/hole cut to let his hand freely hold whatever he needs (ball) to make it seem like nothing is in there. Correct? Ideas?

4.) I'm not trying to burst anyones bubble, but being new I just assume, when Chris Angel does his tricks does he use the camera to his advantage? Or something that allows him to do these tricks? Here are some examples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlIwcVAxZsU, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r0M2JCOco0, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7gl8nNs ... re=related I understand if no one wants to reveal how he does it, because they are amazing tricks. The reason I ask because there are also links that "reveal" him.

Thanks for reading and commenting!

Your first question is a good one. It has been covered before on TM, but I'm sure it could do with being covered again.

The rest of your questions are just a bit too much like asking for the secrets. That's a no-no. If you have an idea in your head how something is done, go away and give it a go. Work out your own way of doing it. That way the performance has a bit of you invested in it, rather than just copying other people. No one on here is going to simply hand over secrets.

Oh and Criss Angel and the camera? You betcha!

I don't mean to sound like I'm asking for the secrets, I'm really not. I thought, at least 2 and 3, I expressed how I thought it was done. I was just asking if anyone else had any other ideas, or if I was on the right track. I apologize for the way those questions appeared. I'm mainly focused on the 2nd one. The only thing I'm working on is what to put the fish in. I've done other tricks where I can linger my off-hand below the podium, so I assume it can easily be done another time, later in the act. I'm just stuck on what the fish is in. I think a plastic bag would be to flimsy, so when dumped may have a possibility of coming out with the fish, unless the end was held by the pinky. (In the video it doesn't look like it though) So I'm assuming it is done by a glass of some sort, a vile? So that was me trying to ask if a vile would work. Not "did he use a vile?". As far as 3, I've tried the bag and it works well... just the bowling ball is a bit heavier and seems harder to try to hide, it works well with lighter things. As far as 4, I'm not asking how he does it. I was just curious if he is doing something that is possible on stage or just on camera. I'm no where near that advanced to pull those things off even with the secrets. Most people say it is the camera, but they're not magicians or have the slightest clue, just a stab in the dark to an answer that sounds/looks good at the time. So I thought I would ask other magicians.

Firstly I really hate the idea of using any animals in magic, even fish. They're living creatures and really deserve to be treated properly. Using an animal causes stress.

To be honest, if you're just starting out you'll be far better getting a good beginners book like Mark Wilson's Complete Course than trying to deconstruct people's tricks.

1) You need to learn how to routine and audience management.

First, get this book. Follow it with this book. Then, get this and finish it all off with this book.

Take the next six months and study all four of those books. You will never ask that particular question again.

2) The appearing goldfish can be purchased at the Kevin James web site for $20.00 - if you want to learn the trick, then buy it.

3) You could be right, but I haven't watched the video. After reading the four books above, you'll spend a lot less time trying to figure out what the other guy is doing because you'll be busy working on your own stuff.

4) Criss doesn't use camera tricks or any kind of tricks at all. He is otherworldly and just naturally has those powers.

Mike.

The advice above is all great, I would strongly recommend getting Mark Wilsons complete course, its all in the title.

Just say "A magic trick is like a joke, it only works the first time"

I use this all the time and its a nice way to keep the specs off your back.

For the other points, get those books.

Funny..as a newbie I thought it was a bit harsh by magic-vents like Sluggo(Cinci) or others to say read the basic books..then get back to us.
I've learned unbelievable things from books..magic is the same way as world religions or sailing..the donkey work has to be done. Best of luck.ron0

ron0 wrote: magic is the same way as world religions or sailing..the donkey work has to be done

Got to be in the top 5 most random statements made on TM!

The advice you've been given on here is good, although I'm not sure the books will teach you fully about audience management. Try searching for some videos of professional magicians, and see how they handle their spectators. It's about body language, flow etc...

If you do a vanish as a trick, then stop - well, there's nothing else, so of course they're going to want to look at your hands etc. it's about not leaving an opportunity for them to ask to inspect stuff until you want them to, i.e. when you're clean. Performing an effect is more than just doing the mechanical stuff correctly, you need to see yourself as not only the circus performer but the ring master too, guiding your audience so the entertainment flows smoothly, and drawing their eyes away from the guy sweeping up elephant crud in the corner! You'll find when you get good at this, you can do stronger magic because you can do more outrageous things without them noticing.

Also, re. repeating a trick - don't. Some effects are based around repetition i.e. the ambitious card routine where it keeps coming to the top, but in these cases the trick is designed so you rarely do it the same way twice - just when they think they might know how you do it, you prove them wrong! But in terms of a cup and ball routine or a coin vanish, don't be a performing monkey - perform it once, do it well, then move on to something else or stop. They will of course beg you to do it again, but don't - it won't be as amazing as the first time, and they'll start to learn what to look for.

Re. your other questions, I realise you're not outright asking for secrets, but you are proposing methods and asking for confirmation which if you think about it is the same thing... if you outwardly guess the correct method, what do you want us to say? "Er... maybe!" Several people agreeing on how they think it's done is 90% of a spoilt secret, and it doesn't happen here, sorry!

All the best

GhostFoxInc wrote:I'm new so please be patient with all my questions and comments. So to make replies easier I'll just number all of my questions

1.) My biggest stutter with my spectators is when they say something to the effect of: "Lemme see you other hand", "Can you do it again?", "Can I see your prop" I don't know how to politely answer them no, without giving up the trick itself. Examples: They always want to see my other hand during a Vanishing trick, Some tricks I can't do again without preparation (Self Tie'in Shoestring) others (Levatations) I don't want to do more than twice, and they want to see the cups (Cups'N'Balls) before I repeat the process. How do you kindly say they're a one-time bang?

Welcome to the board. The trick with your first question, is to wait until you have a routine ready, rather than showing people individual tricks. Now, this is easier said than done, but if you do a trick, and stop, people are naturally going to say 'do it again!' or what-have-you to try and catch you out. It's far better to have a flowing routine, whereby you don't give people a chance to catch you out, you simply start your next miracle.

Everyone is keen to get out there and show their friends, family and mates down the pub their latest trick, but you really need to work on putting a few together, to avoid having to repeat something.

Don't get me wrong, this is a difficult balancing act, you have to balance the whole 'pause for reaction' with 'moving on to the next trick' with 'don't take too long or people will start asking you to do it again', but this comes with experience.

The books mentioned above are all very worth while, and should be required reading for any magician. I would add Peter Eldin's Pocket Book of Magic to the mix too.

There's an old saying that if you want to keep a secret of magic then publish it in a magic book.

There are a lot of interesting points given in the advice above and there's little to disagree with. Almost all of us start off in a similar way to yourself with a collection of 'tricks' that we perform before they're really ready to be shown.

Some of what you have mentionned, such as levitations are really not the best things to be starting off with and personally, I'd recommend that you ditch the levitation and dedicate the saved time to the cups and balls.

The books will help you considerably and you don't have to buy them all at once.

I liked the fact that themagicwand avoided the pun of 'fishing for secets' on Q2

Thank you all for helping and your advice! I will do my best to work on what has been given to me. I do work on my routines and they normally work well. I'm not a stand-up magician of any sorts yet, just a table hopper. So my tricks are normally shorter but combined with other tricks that rely on the same type of prop. Anyway, I'm about to order the first book that M.J. suggested. Also, thanks dimabbq, I never really compared the two but that is a rather humorous statement I will use. Lady of Mystery, I don't mean to question you. I do agree with the stress statement you made, but I have 7 years of animal breeding (not mills of any sort) and 5 years of animal training. Although at first the animals are stressed due to the "learning" stages, once they learn what is being asked most of them seem to enjoy pleasing the master. I understand your concern on fish, very few species can you "train" (Betta are not one of them), but there are numerous animals that enjoy doing "tricks". At the moment I haven't attempted to teach my animals magic tricks, but they are asked to do odd things, but they enjoy doing them, and the rewards afterwards. Jasper, my sugar glider, was stressed trying to learn to glide to me on command, but now that it has been learned he loves the mealies in the end. I am an animal lover just as you seem to be and I won't ask my pets to do anything that I believe would cause them issues or stress them to a harmful state.

GFI (can I call you "GFI?"), your answer just begs a post. I'm going to get really controversial and I'm going to take some serious stick for it...

Pick up that gizmo from Kevin James.

A goldfish is a carp. It is one of the most versatile and staunch of fish. It can survive conditions that few other fish can deal with. Personally, I think that they are proud of that fact. I think that they are proud to be produced by magicians.

Don't let these mamby-pamby members talk you into disregarding this effect, as long as you are ethical with the fish. If you don't give a flying fig about that fishes's welfare, then you shouldn't be doing any kind of trick involving one. But, if you honestly care about that fish, then use him in your act and hold your head high.

Momentarily, the "Fish Are People Too" group will be chiming in, telling me what a horrible person I am.

But, you know what? I've actually seen magicians complaining about the mistreatment of flies (no sh*t - flies) because of another magician doing the "Fly Ressurection." A fly? Let's get real here, folks.

So, if you treat that little fishy right, you go right ahead and do the appearing goldfish trick.

Keeping in mind, of course, that it is not instantly re-settable in your walk around environment.

And, just for the record GFI (hey? can I call ya GFI?), based on your last post, I would choose the fourth book in my list above first, and the first book second if I were you.

Oh, this just came in from someone who's opinion I quite often defer to:

Appearing Goldfish can be found in Al Baker's "Pet Secrets," which I've been told is an even better technique (more modern).

Just an addendum, as it were...

Mike.

Teaching is a science and an art. In my courses on world religions(ages six( every group teaches the Golden Rule) to 18) or World War Two history I was lucky to have many visitors.
I would watch in amazement as an expert would lose the class in 90 seconds. Generally they spoke at a level too difficult or confusing(terror does that!)

Start with basics..teach them and then gradually move up to more challenging concepts. Test each concept for understanding.
It's the same everywhere...start simple and work up.

In my experience, a book is a good start. Sure one will quickly run aground, but then there are places like this great site which has some generous members who will gladly tell a neophyte the basic and then the reason why.
Don't teach the whole course in one day.
By the way,Leeds is my favourite city in England..I can't believe the southerners allowed that 40 million pound facility to be built up north. Also in the seventies it was somewhat sketchy to walk along the canal . Now it's a safe, afternoon stroll to the museum. I do like Leeds..especially the CITY team. Gosh that sounds smarmy!.
ron0