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I'm curious about how to best tackle the D/L - I'm not talking about technique as such - although I can't make up my mind up between 'pinky break' and flip over (as taught by Davenport's and others) versus 'multiple push off' (Paul Gordon style). I'm looking at this with my 'layman' hat on. The obvious way to show the top card, or any card come to think of it, is to lift it off the pack and show the face (without flipping it back on top - usually to pick up again). I've always thought the 'flip over on to the top of the deck' looks like a magic effect because it isn't the way Joe Public would show a card.

As a comparative novice I've probably got a fierce hold on the wrong end of the stick - but I'd welcome your comments.

Cheers

The average Joe Public would also never spring cards from hand to hand and most people can't even riffle shuffle without the aid of a table.

The point is to show your specs that that's how YOU show a card. Get them accustomed to your methods and handling of a deck in general. Only then will they accept everything else.

If you have a card selected and want to cut it into the middle, do so.
Once people see what you've done, you can perform a Bluff Pass without arousing suspicion because to the audience, you're simply cutting the card into the centre like you did a moment ago.

All this stuff comes from Card College vol 2 (Theory)

Yes, but for a layperson, the "obvious" way to shuffle the cards would be very badly. I don't think anyone is going to go "Hey! You didn't show me that card they way I clumsily would! This is fishy!"

Don't run when you're not being chased. Unless you're late for the bus or somefink. Or you just like running.

queen of clubs wrote:Yes, but for a layperson, the "obvious" way to shuffle the cards would be very badly. I don't think anyone is going to go "Hey! You didn't show me that card they way I clumsily would! This is fishy!"

Don't run when you're not being chased. Unless you're late for the bus or somefink. Or you just like running.

I think the correct term is, "Don't fix it if it ain't broke."
But I like yours too.

I think the correct term is, "Don't fix it if it ain't broke."

That's not quite the same though Henry!

There are several different ways to D/L, some more advance but if you execute a pinky break and flip over well and with the right timing and misdirection, the spectators will be none the wiser.

Under tight scrutiny, there are certainly better D/L's, take a look at Dai Vernon's in his Book Of Magic.

This has nothing to do with the thread, but why do people write D/L? It's annoying because erroneously using the forward slash you're technically writing double or lift. Would you write U/S/A??

Back to the topic, I think that the best DL is whichever you can do best. People don't care if you flip a card over, or you pick it up by the pips and rotate it, as long as you're compelling enough. It's only when people are bored, or nonplussed, that they start picking fault or asking questions.

Also, I find that using a very basic form of psychological conditioning also helps when performing sleights. For instance, if you're going to do a DL, then whatever your favoued technique, make sure you've used the exact same mechanics to genuinely turn over a single card for that spectator or audience. If they see something once and it's shown to be real, when they see it again they will assume.

I use this whenever I perform Dan & Dave Buck's Tivo, which requires a DL from the middle of the deck. I always make sure that within the last few minutes I've made the exact same motion to remove a SINGLE card from the centre. It flies, trust me.

Queenie's makes a very good point. If it be a dl, hindu control or anything else. If you make you're normal handling look the same as when you are performing a sleight, people will just get used to seeing it done that way and wond question it. It's only when you've been say over hand shuffling all day and then swap to a hindu in order to do a control that it looks iffy.

Also try to mix up the way that you perfrom your dl, some times use a break, sometimes use a push off. The more you mix it up, the less likely anything's going to get spotted. That's why it's always a good ida to lean more than one method for something.

The Double/Lift DL or whatever we will call it in Ben Earls Past Midnight is great. I think its disk 2 is very good-he claims its his own but im sure ive seen it somewhere before. It is very much how someone unacustomed to cards would turn over 2. he basically picks it up halfway down the long side and turns it over and off the deck. Im currently trying to learn it..I wouldnt recommend the DVD to a beginneras there are some complicated effects on it...
Dave

Jumping in a bit late here... anyhoo...

Regardless of how you choose to do the DL, my tip would be to work it into the effect so it slides by unnoticed. If all attention is going to be on the deck at the time you do it, I'd go with a super safe one, i.e. get a break waaaaay ahead of time.

But I've had a few people (other magicians, obviously!) compliment me on my DL, say that it was smooth etc, and the reply is usually "that's because you weren't watching when did it!". For instance - if it's a signed card trick, get them to say stop, cut to the card or whatever then hand them the pen. Being a sharpie it will need to have the cap taken off, and by the time they've done that you've done the DL. Simple.

Another way to turn a double back over if they've signed it is to blow on it, which means you can neatly line it up, holding it top and bottom - pick it up, blow on it, then either turn your hand over so it's already turned over or put it back but get a break, and you're away.

In short, whenever an effect requires a DL, look what happens either side of it and see if you can take the focus off the DL so that it just "happens".

...

Some extremely helpful comments here - many thanks for taking time to write them; I'm very grateful. Hunt me down at a convenient event and I'll buy you a drink.. Cheers

I agree the average Joe won't do it the same as you because the average Joe isn't a Magician. You are! So why would you turn over a card like an average Joe when youre not an average Joe? The methods used to do a D/L look nice and looks like you know what you're doing compared to turning over a card like an average Joe and looking unprofessional.

I'm gonna buck the trend here and say... I handle cards badly (Really badly), just like a layman. I've deliberately decided against practicing my shuffles and what not. So whenever I do do something fishy (for example a force) people won't immediately think I'm doing anything out of the ordinary

But then, I'm not a card magician

Well I can tell you that not practicing will hurt me, I need to practice so I can perform smoothly because once you are trying to do the move it might look even worse because you haven't practiced, and a move is a move so you're gonna do it regardless, so why not at least feel comfortable doing it? I believe being comfortable with a move is how you get it across to people that you didn't do anything fishy when in fact you have, you were just smooth about it. So basically if you're doing something fishy and you haven't practiced more than likely people will be suspicious about what you're doing because you can't do it neatly. Plus you look way more professional when you actually know how to do what you do.
My advice to you is take your time, I think when magicians get caught doing something fishy or when people get suspicious about what you're doing its because you were taking your time the whole time you've performed a trick and all of a sudden you speed up or rush something, at that point people may not know what you did but that you did something, otherwise you would have taken your time all the way through. So don't do things fast, take your time when your doing moves and not doing moves and you will blend it all in.

Mexicub wrote:Well I can tell you that not practicing will hurt me, I need to practice so I can perform smoothly because once you are trying to do the move it might look even worse because you haven't practiced, and a move is a move so you're gonna do it regardless, so why not at least feel comfortable doing it?

As I said, I'm not a card magician. I don't do DLs (don't need to), the most complex thing I do is a force If I do a basic overhand shuffle it says to the spec "I wouldn't even know how to force that card". Though I agree with moves like DLs you need to practice them

My advice to you is take your time, I think when magicians get caught doing something fishy or when people get suspicious about what you're doing its because you were taking your time the whole time you've performed a trick and all of a sudden you speed up or rush something

But I don't rush my forces (or coin sleights), and never said I did?