talkmagic.co.uk

russpie wrote:I danced naked on the bar in Berlins a few years ago for a bottle of champaine that my mates drank as I looked for my trousers. It's a gay bar now & i'd do it again because I never got any champers.

Russ

is that why you have a bit on your web site that say's


" area covered?"

It's a very small area.

Russ

russpie wrote:It's a very small area.

Russ

Thats alright, It was probably cheap champagne





( in the good old days, when i worked chicago rock cafe's, they used to give out "champers", and sell it for around a tenner a bottle.
I know it cost them around 35 pence a bottle. the amount of people i saw strip off for 35p!!)

good days that!

I have stories that would make your toe-nails curl.

Just the mere thought of seeing most of the magician types I know in the buff anywhere is enough to make one's toenails curl

I have no idea on the magical subject of it, but cold reading in martial arts can be watching your opponent to see what he/she may have hidden in their pockets, up their sleeves, etc. to make sure there aren't many surprises. At least that is what I was taught to do. Just a piece of info you will probably never need to know

Elemental

Elemental wrote:I have no idea on the magical subject of it, but cold reading in martial arts can be watching your opponent to see what he/she may have hidden in their pockets, up their sleeves, etc. to make sure there aren't many surprises. At least that is what I was taught to do. Just a piece of info you will probably never need to know

Elemental

Ahhh... we have a grasshopper in our midst

In Martial Arts the reference is about "Reading" the opponent and their body language as well as your environment; paying attention to the subtle and being prepared for the unexpected... this is very much a kindred "science" but not directly tied to this subject... more of an "advanced" course of study from where most folks are at when they are talking about "Cold Reading"... then again, the majority throw this term around in such a random manner that any hint as to it's actual meaning seems to get lost. Especially when folks start complicating the simplistic via augmented terms like "Warm Readings" or "Hot Readings" etc. Adding so many ingredients ruins the broth.

It's ironic (at least from my point of view) how I can teach my magic students about how to develop their skills as a solid Reader and 90% of what I teach them is exactly what you would be taught if you were taken by the hand by the village shaman and shown his secrets in "knowing" (as it's typically referred to). But then Edgar Cayce himself pointed out the fact that being "Psychic" simply meant that you had an expanded sense of awareness and understanding. He negated the idea of boogiemen or invisible fairy folk whispering in one's ear for the most part... as to how certain Money Grabbers that built up the Institute around the man "shifted" this truth... well, I'll not dare venture down that path. The bottom line is, you just need to open your eyes along side your brain... the right side of the brain in particular, in that it is here that the fantastic is digested.

Hold to your Martial Arts point of view, it will help you understand the truth of this matter far more than the psycho-babble you'll find in the majority of Cold Reading manuscripts published in the past decade.

Craig Browning wrote: Sadly, those making claims that they can read folks due to study in NLP or Body Language, etc. are just as big and bold a LIER as they insist we evil and cold hearted psychic are... same holds true with our Psychological Magician types... you are applying the very same ALLUSION to the situation... same product, different flavor. But please understand the ethics as well as the obligations are one in the same.

Don't matter what you call your technique, if you say you are a "psychic", you then go to a path that is full of lies anyways. What you tell your spectactor your technique to be, is not important, unless you are telling her you obtain supernatural powers.

Anyways, I think coldreading itself can be workable technique to about 5% of people, who have real good people-skills at the beginning. The rest try to learn the technique from book, and the results usually are bad and akward.

Btw, Derren uses a lot of hot-reading and makes it seem he uses cold-reading in many cases anyway.

Craig Browning wrote:

I have stories that would make your toe-nails curl.

Just the mere thought of seeing most of the magician types I know in the buff anywhere is enough to make one's toenails curl

I guess this is how Ali Bongo get's his slippers to fit.

JamesJoystick wrote:
Don't matter what you call your technique, if you say you are a "psychic", you then go to a path that is full of lies anyways. What you tell your spectactor your technique to be, is not important, unless you are telling her you obtain supernatural powers.
.

So a lie is only a lie if it's a psychic lie? How convenient.

So if you said your powers came from being abductted by aliens and having a chip placed in your brain, that would be okay? However if you said that aliens abducted you and the experience left you with psychic abilities, that would be an evil lie?

I blame Derren Brown, I really do.

Now I've never really understood the arguement about claiming that you can special powers. I don't see that it really matters how you explain how something's do so long as the spectator is entertained by what you're doing. At the end of the day, the spectator is going to draw their own conclusions to what you're doing anyway.

When people start exploiting vulnerable people by claiming to be able to talk to the dead and charge money for getting messages from a dead grandad, then that's when the line is crossed in my opinion.

I do quite a few effect where I claim to be able to read auras to get certain information. It's total rubbish but it's part of the performance.

Lady of Mystery wrote:the spectator is going to draw their own conclusions to what you're doing anyway.

Even Houdini during his time of exposing fake mediums couldn't get everyone to understand that he had no special psychic powers. People will believe what they want to believe.....

well it's my personal thing, but I think its wrong to make claims you have supernatural powers. It just encourages people to believe stuff that aint real. If you claim you achieved the results with nlp, hypnosis, psychology, in my eyes that is not as bad thing to do, even if its still a lie.
Because one really COULD do some similar things with nlp or psychology, and it doesnt use any mumbojumbo of your dead grandmother etc.

Magic itself is really just a lie.

Yes some people will believe what they want, but good amount of them will believe you if you say that you dont posess any supernatural powers and you do it other ways using specific tehcniques.

Also it's good to remember that people were more superstitious at the time of Houdini's than now.

Lady of Mystery, if you did magic tricks at me, and at some point you would say you read my "auras" to achieve the tricks, that would totally ruin the magic for me. I wouldnt say anything but in my mind I would go "bitch please.". No offense. The world is full of mumbojambo and bad thinking, why would magicians encourage it more?

JamesJoystick wrote: nlp,

Mumbo jumbo

JamesJoystick wrote:hypnosis,

mumbo jumbo

JamesJoystick wrote:psychology,

Mumbo jumbo.

JamesJoystick wrote:Also it's good to remember that people were more superstitious at the time of Houdini's than now.

Now you've really fallen into the trap of thinking "Oh aren't we a lot cleverer now than people in the olden days". Don't you believe it. There never has been an age of simple folk who were easy to decieve, wandering around in a haze of happy stupidness, clutching their lucky irish heather. That's a school boy's way of thinking.

It can certainly be wrong if such claims are misused or intended for fraudulent purposes but folks who do that are conmen/criminals rather than magicians or entertainers. If we create a mystery by hidden, but quite normal, means then that's entertainment. If we seriously claim to have unearthly gifts then that's misleading. If we claim to have special skills (i.e.with card sleights or other acquired talents) then that's quite true.

As was mentioned, people will apply their own labels to performers and it's hard to dissuade them.

Bear in mind that singers who croon on about how much they love you etc don't mean a word of it and nobody gets upset - well, apart from a few who still think New Kids on the Block are cute - and actors frequently enact false realities for our pleasure. Magicians and Mentalists have an extra duty of care to avoid tapping into the audience's secret dreams/fears and it's good that you're concerned about this aspect. Spectators will all react differently to a certain extent but there's only so much that we can do to cushion the more extreme reactions. I'm always saddened when TV programmes are taken off because the story line is close to a breaking news item but I can understand why that should be done at times. These days it seems that even the tiniest aspect is enough to have broadcasts postponed or binned altogether (see the thread about the Walker's Crisps 'Summer Holiday' spoof and other ads being taken off air) so a bit of reason and common sense needs to be included.

JamesJoystick wrote:Lady of Mystery, if you did magic tricks at me, and at some point you would say you read my "auras" to achieve the tricks, that would totally ruin the magic for me. I wouldnt say anything but in my mind I would go "bitch please.". No offense. The world is full of mumbojambo and bad thinking, why would magicians encourage it more?

oy! you watch your language to people on here joystick...grow up

or that stick your kissing will end up somewhere that you talk out of..

no offense