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Listen to Dr. Todd he knows. Second, I'm not sure how to say this. Mentalism is different not more difficult. While magic and mentalism are both performance based, in mentalism there is less to 'hide behind' less props therefore you have to have better knowledge on how to handle not only yourself, but your audience, that only comes with experience, (acting and speech lessons also help) and it is why it is more difficult for younger people, just a lack of experience, does not in any way mean it can't be done.

Your posts are a perfect example of why it is more difficult. You say that you 'need' to start doing mentalism in your show. You 'want' to start with the glass box prediction. Truth is both cases are a want or desire, You don't need to do anything of the sort. Why not start with other predictions and see how they evolve. Slow down. What? you are going to purchase the thing, tear through the instructions, practice if for a week or so then throw it into your act? Or are you going to learn the thing inside out and backwards, are you going to take the time to adapat it to your personal style, take the time and truly make it into a masterpiece of your own? It is the exubrance of youth that makes mentalism harder on most young.

I'm tempted to continue but not just for your benefit but for others as well but frankly I think its a lesson that is only going to be learned with time, and 27 years from now you will be trying to pass this same information on to somebody else.

gymguy203 wrote:im keeping my show and sticking with magic, but i just want to add a few mentalism effects and the MPS is 3,000 dollars so i want to start with the glass prediction box..... But i dont want to waste my money on an effect that i cant perform...... I just want to know why it is so difficult and what it means to "Q" the spectators.

Ok I've not waded through this whole thread but let me shine some light on things for you.

Firstly, the Clear Prediction Box you refer to is "Mental Magic" NOT "Mentalism" e.g. there is absolutely no reason why you couldn't include it in your act. It is a trick developed by a magician, not an effect created by a mentalist. So bits of this sort and similar "feeling" routines are perfectly fine for you to toss in HOWEVER you need to weigh some key points such as your claims, the plausibility surrounding what you plan on doing, etc.

At 21-22 years of age I realized I was not yet skilled enough in LIFE to be an effective and BELIEVABLE Mentalist/Psychic Entertainer. Though some have been successful when in these younger years, it is a very rare instance and most always involves an older, more experienced mentor of some sort that helps guide and even mold the image and resume of the younger.

At 15 you simply don't have the maturation required for being believable in the eyes of the typical layman and most especially people that actually know about the paranormal and spiritual themes. When you are dealing with an art form that, unlike magic, requires the audience to host belief in what you are doing, this is a critical factor.

Doing Mental Magic is perfectly fine; routines such as the Crystal Box Prediction can work for you as would the Mental Epic and the other various bits that have been overdone by magicians (especially in the past few years) as well as some of the cornier material from the food ole days... the rule of thumb is, it shouldn't look like a magicians trick if you are going to call it mentalism.

Something for you to consider however, especially when it comes to your featuring a $3,000.00 dollar piece of business in your show at your age; the fact that it makes you look like a poor little rich kid who has little to no regard for tradition; "I can (or mom & dad will) buy it e.g. I can do it..." I've watched more perspective talent fail because of such egotistical attitudes than I've ever seen succeed. But if money is no option, why aren't you dropping $10,000.00 or more into some high end illusion? which by the way, would be far more acceptable in the public mind when presented by someone of your age group.

The other thing to ask yourself is if you have this one high end piece, what else is in your program that supports said venture?

If you want to put some "MENTALISM" into your show then think like a Mentalist rather than a selfish, self-serving magic brat. Actually invest yourself into LEARNING Mentalism; how to work billets for an example, and the 1,001 other version of Confabulation (which is what this Crystal Box routine is based on) that exist... including the original that used little other than a Himber Wallet.

BTW... there is absolutely no reason why anyone "Has To" study Mentalism or any other area of the magic world. We do so because we are pulled to it for one reason or another. I've never been a fan of Card Tricks e.g. I never really invested the time others do into said area thus, I don't know card magic... try testing me on major illusions or mentalism however; there I am smarter than the average bear. All because these have been my areas of primary study.

You can do a full two-hour show and not present a single psychic-styled effect; many have and do on a daily basis and many of these people have been doing it longer than you've been able to read, let alone stomp your feet and say that you want things your way and only your way.

The "Advice" people share with others in this forum is typically based on their experiences. The goal is to help you (those less experienced) to not make huge and in this instance, potentially expensive mistakes.

If you feel so strongly about "Mentalism" them study it and as I encouraged in another thread of yours, find ways that make sense for you to cultivate that image and move in that direction. But if you simply have a hard-on for this one trick and want to defend, what you already know to be an unwise investment by bringing up threads of this sort, then I can only say that you already know within yourself how unrealistic you're being, other wise you would not be questioning so much of what's been given to you. I can assure you that going with your gut vs. your "wants" will save you a great deal of angst further down the line.

Now, if you want to honestly learn about Mentalism there are sticky threads here that give you resources and the suggested course of travel, expected time frame needed for each aspect of the course, etc. I'd suggest you check them out. I'll go a few steps further and recommend that you let go of this Ellusionist instant-fix idea as to what magic is all about and check in with the reality on things.

ok....So everyone is saying that instead of wasting my money on effects that I can just buy and Learn fast, I should study the art and different techniques and make those effects amazing. Can someone then tell me which books or resources I should start with? I want to become successful and I starting to understand what you guys are all sayinng, but know can you help me to get started
?

http://talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic11429.php

Read that. Simple.

So I should buy 13 steps by corinda and max maven's prisim and i should be good to start with?

Buy 13 Steps.

Just buy 13 steps and Practical Mental Magic by Anneman, the Prism series requires a rather higher knowledge of mentalism that someone just starting out.

13 steps and Annemann practical mental magic cover the skills you will use for mentalism. However if you haven't done much in the way of mental magic yet you may want to look at something a bit more simple first like karl Fulves self working mental magic first.

Do not take this as an insult, nor Ian, take this as a kiss *rse exercise.

Ian wanted to get into Mentalism. What did he do? He bought the basics, he studied hard and asked questions he genuinely needed the anwser to.

He's putting together a routine, which as far as I know, doesn't need any purchasble gimmciks.

He is a beginner in the field of Mentalism and you should follow his style. It's very admirable for somebody his age.

I forgot about that book. That one costs about $7, so it's the cheapest one if you just want a couple of rather simple, pretty good effects. Actually on second thought just get all of them if your interetsed in mentalism.

I don't actually like a lot of the effects in the Fulves book, but it does have a few solid tricks and introduces a few principles in simple ways. Set the gears in motion for bigger things.

so 13 steps and practical mental magic.......are there any others that I have to have?

so 13 steps and practical mental magic.......are there any others that I have to have?

Please, listen. You don't HAVE to have these books. But they weill greatly help your learning and understanding of mentalism.

They, and maybe some gimmicks that you may choose to use from the books, are all you will need for a long time if you are serious about Mentalism.

He's putting together a routine, which as far as I know, doesn't need any purchasble gimmciks.

Only one. Than again it's not necessary so who knows what will happen. Still in the big design process

Edit:This got me thinking, I came up with a gimmick-less way to do this which is gutsy, but I think it would be better to be gimmick-less.

gymguy203 wrote:so 13 steps and practical mental magic.......are there any others that I have to have?

To say that I'm biting my tongue here is an understatement... you've managed to push my buttons gymguy and not in a good way (at this point several people are moving away from their keyboards as Mandrake breaks a cold sweat hoping I'm gentle).

Stop asking everyone to do it for you... stop looking for the "easy way out"... it don't exist and last I checked, none of us here are your mum or dad and thus, we don't need to read the instructions to you. Just in asking this question proves you've not read the article you were give the link to or copied down the LIST of books recommended for newbies and the approximate time frame one would need to invest into each tome in order to become proficient. I'm just taking a wild guess at this, but I take it you're not an A-B student? Your grade point average tends to be a bit on the low side, right?

I say this because your are expressing symptoms of extreme laziitus... it's very common, especially in American teens. The cure of it however, is a swift kick in the backside and someone telling you to suck it up and get out there and do some digging -- apply yourself to actually learn what it is you claim you want to learn. Though it can be tough work, it will prove rewarding over time.

Now I've tried very hard to be kind and gentle with you and a couple of the other newbies we've seen pop in over the past week or so. I'm trying to guide you guys in the direction of your supposed interest along with several other people around here. But some of you aren't content with the help you've been given in that we aren't like those hack sites you're used to that just give away information. We respect this craft and expect our members to do the same as well as them selves. That means they have the kind of integrity that's required for getting the detail on whatever it is that's sparked their curiosity, being willing to listen to the voices of experience and reason and most importantly, extend the sort of responses that denote appreciation, mutual sharing, and support.

Now, I would strongly recommend that you use that link wildcard gave you earlier (http://talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic11429.php) and actually study what's said in the article and the various books suggested on that very short list.

There are many, many more books... I own hundreds and they barely scratch the surface but let me give you a working example of something...

There is a routine you will find in one of those "standard" books on that list known as 4th Dimensional Telepathy I've featured it in my show for years but not as you would recognize it. My version has undergone subtle changes that came through other writers/performers whose thinking and twists allowed me to make improvements to the bit based on what I wanted to achieve with it. Unlike magic Mentalism often takes in a huge amount of psychological consideration including the "theme" held by the performer, his claims and promoted skills. For this reason my presentation of this classic effect differs from what others may do. At the same time, the conditions under which I'm performing may require that I use a completely different handling to the same effect... that's simply part of being a professional and KNOWING your craft.

Now you have a woody going for this Crystal Box trick and I have the funny feeling your perception of that one effect is giving you a very wrong impression and understanding as to what Mentalism is all about. It's not the same as magic and it does require one to be a bit more "mature" and "studious"... so you may want to weigh that against your expressed neediness and lethargy.