talkmagic.co.uk

I'm about to start working on this and so far only briefly read teh description in Expert Card Technique. It looks pretty difficult. I was wondering if these mathods are considered any good or whether there are other methods anyone could recommend. I'm asking this now before spending time on it as I did feel as though I wasted too much time on the Ersnade bottom deal before discovering there was a far easier and more convincing alternative method.

Sorry - I think I'm about to hijack your thread somewhat .......I do the Erdnase bottom deal. It's certainly a bit knacky and I do tend to struggle if I'm trying to bottom deal from a full, new deck. Once I'm half way down the deck it's no problem (or if I'm using an older desk I can b/deal with a full deck). I'd be interested if you could point me towards some literature where I can learn an alternative method that may be easier.

In terms of dealing from the middle - wouldn't it just be easier to control the cards to the top/bottom or do you have a specific purpose for dealing from there?

Strep wrote:In terms of dealing from the middle - wouldn't it just be easier to control the cards to the top/bottom or do you have a specific purpose for dealing from there?

When I first read about the centre deal, I thought the same thing. I spoke to Marco at International Magic and later Mr.Vincent and they both agreed that it was a lot more usefull as a gambling move. If you have sigted the top few and bottom few cards are they are all useless, dealing from the center is more likely to produce a usefull card.

On the Infinite and Beyond video by Martin Nash, he does a centre dealing Ace routine where a certain spectator gets all the kings, and he deals from the centre himself the four aces. It is amazingly simple, just very very sly. You are technically dealing from the middle, just in a very cheeky way.

I agree with Wild Card. Martin Nash also teaches the Centre Deal on Martin A. Nash Live. I believe Fernando Keops teaches it as well on one of his videos also. Sadly, Wimhurst doesn't teach it on his video, although he does use it in his routine.

Strep wrote:I'd be interested if you could point me towards some literature where I can learn an alternative method that may be easier.

After starting of with Ersnade and discovering that (for me at least) it has too much knuckle flash and it's quite easy to spot from certain angels I just played around and just did what worked best for me - which was some advice I read on a thread in here somewhere. I've got no idea if it's written down anywhere but if you would like to discuss it then send me a PM and I'll attempt to describe the method. My girlfriend has been subjected to my bottom deal practice for some time and has assured me (that even with her tuned eyes) that she cannot notice any difference between my tops and bottoms.

If you want to demonstrate a centre deal rather than actually being able to do one, check out Ed Marlo - The Legend DVD. He has a mock centre deal demonstration that requires a buckled bottom deal, the clever chap.

He also explains how to genuinely centre deal on the same DVD.

A good source for a good bottom deal that was used by Vernon (even though I'm sure he knew them all), is the Vernon Ultimate Secrets of Card Magic book.

Hope that helps

Dai Vernon's Revelations Volume 12 teaches the centre deal, and various bottom deals, and even more second deals.

He teaches the easiest and most convincing bottom deal, along with some others, and even goes over some finer points of the Erdnase Bottom. He teaches various second deals and gives some great tips and stories on the second. The New Theory second is a brilliant and fairly easy way to deal seconds face up. A very recommended Volume if you are into False Dealing.

The Centre Deal he teaches is, in my opinion, easier than the one taught in Expert Card Technique.

The only thing is that he does not teach seconds and bottoms from the same grip. If this is important, I whole heartedly recommend Ian Kendall's Tops, Seconds and Bottoms DVD, which I have seen has been recommended many times before.

But anyway, getting a bit off topic, Revelations Volume 12 is a good way to visually learn the centre deal, and the demo of the centre deal is absolutely insane.

The centre (or middle) deal is one of the most difficult sleights to CONVINCINGLY manage - it's very much used in poker demonstrations but very rarely in real poker games. The tricky point is not necessarily to make it look convincing, but to make it SOUND convincing when the cards are dealt from the center - that's in most cases the 'tell' for trained ears.

Sure enough it would be easier to bring the desired cards to either the bottom or the top of the deck and to deal them from there... but in a real poker game that would require to perform a pass after the cards have been shuffled and cut... which can be detected easily under the eyes of a suspicious observer. The method of the centre deal was therefore invented to get around exactly that problem.

You have chosen to practise some serious sleight here... be aware that it took people like Vernon, Miller, etc. several YEARS of practise to get the centre deal perfect.

For anyone who is intersted in the historical background of the bottom deal, I can highly recommend the book "The Magician and the Cardsharp: The Search for America's Greatest Sleight-of-Hand Artist" by Karl Johnson.

Hello all.

I can't centre deal, having realised that bottoms and seconds serve the same purpose but for far less trouble.

I kind of agree with Magnus in the sense that the centre deal was a reaction to observant company in a poker game. In private games where the use of bottom dealing was well known, hosts often insisted that a face up joker or a specially-made plastic card was placed on the bottom of the deck. Naturally this prevented bottom dealing. It did not however prevent centre dealing which is a lot less widespread and I suspect unkown to some hosts.

Incidentally my second is ok. But my bottom is awful.

Marvo,

when you say "specially-made plastic card," are you referencing ones similar to the kind currently used by casinos? I'm asking because I thought the "Greek" deal was supposed to be a way of dealing bottoms around even that card, wtihout having to resort to a center deal.

Incidentally, I'm in the same boat as you regarding my second and bottom deals.

Yes i thought the same thing about the Greek deal - dealing bottoms even if an extra card in there. Kif Chan is very adept at it.

I'm currently practising the routine from Martin Nash's DVD "Infinity and Beyond". In the last card trick he teaches how you can centre deal the four aces from FOUR DIFFERENT POSITIONS in the deck... spooky, but not that difficult when you know how.

On the DVD, Marin is referring to another one of his videos which is (as I understood it) completely dedicated to the cente deal. For everyone who's interested in the technique, this might be worth having a look...

Cheers,
Magnus