Advice for a novice of sorts

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Advice for a novice of sorts

Postby TimEden » Sep 6th, '08, 11:50



About me (if you're interested!):

Thirty-something.

Asked, a year ago, to be a magician for a murder mystery evening so thought had beter learn some simple card tricks (and yes they were simple).

Since developed a passion for card magic and can pull off tricks (only occasionally using gaff cards/trick decks) that seem, looking at card technique alone, to meet the criteria for Magic Circle membership level (I stress this is technique alone - not necessarily the vital patter and delivery) and can easily get the "WOW" response from friends.

Have, as such, delivered a one-hour card magic workshop at the school where I teach to 11-13 year olds, as part of our Arts Festival. Success!

So...THE QUESTION:

I'm trying to build up the confidence to do what you people call "Table-hopping" (if I understand the term correctly and it's not some kind of physical feat you have all mastered, ho-ho) at a friend's wedding and a school social evening.

Do you think it's possible to do magic at tables which is purely card-based?
Do any of you do this or do I really need to diversify?
Hypothetically could someone enter the magic circle with cards alone?

I'd be genuinely interested in your thoughts...

Cheers if you made it this far...

Tim

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Postby MagicBell » Sep 6th, '08, 12:41

If cards is what you do, then I can't see why not. It's obviously a huge area of magic, enough to stand alone in it's own right.

It's nice to have some grounds in the basics of other things though. I'd recommend sleights and the like of small objects such as coins, balls or anything else you can find. Could make for some great impromptu magic and truly believable if the spec knows the item being used is not yours or prepared by you.

Table hopping could be done with cards but, as I say, it's very prepared and limited. If you finish off (or begin) with a trick using something picked up off of a table, it'd be impressive.

That's my opinion though.


I know little about the Magic Circle and what their standards are. Someone else could fill you in there. The only real way to find out is to try, but perhaps it's worth waiting and learning some more. I don't think there's any necessity to get in right now.

If your patter and presentation isn't as good as your technique, then emphasise on practicing that. It's very important and it's not often you can perform a trick solely on technical ability with no presentation skills to add to it.

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Postby TimEden » Oct 10th, '08, 23:47

The difficult thing is that it's hard to practise patter on your own (right?) whereas you can practise technique till your heart's content.

I've started with my first bit of mentalism via Derren Brown's Invisible Deal and it's the same: You can't really practise this without a volunteer which means screwing up a few times first.

I know exactly what you mean though. I tend to be too aggressive but maybe that comes from often doing tricks on schoolkids who say things like "I saw what you did there!".

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Postby Marvell » Oct 11th, '08, 01:56

I have two bits of advice ...

There are many aspects to the trick. Certain things you can practice on your own, certain things you can't. Practising a trick which involves no mental work or misdirection, only moves and patter, is the sort of trick to learn in the first instance if you're not confident with presentation, misdirection, etc.

Practice tricks which you can take out. This way, you can practice presentation, and other things whilst you're performing something you know end to end. This trick or routine is the foundation on which you play with other things.

A classic example of a move which impossible practice, other than the setup and spreading, is the C*****c F***e. If you've got a trick which requires a true spectator selection from a hand held spread, practice that move at the same time. If they miss, not only have you the whole trick to back you up as normal, but you also have, if they miss by one, a K*y C**d as an out.

Why not, when you have controlled a card to somewhere, set up for a P**k or G*****e. Don't actually perform at first, just practice misdirection and decide as to whether or not you'd have got away with it. On another day, actually perform the above. It's an excellent out in itself. But if you fail, have an out for that sticky situation too.

With all this going on, on top of a solid set of tricks, you can confidently practice, out of context, many of the things that you can't on your own. You can certainly practice a bit of mentalism during a trick where the original trick is itself is the out.

The way I practice presentation is by actually speaking it, out loud, at the right volume and tone. I do this over and over until I get the rhythm and patter right. I do it to posters and photos. I do it to a camera, if the mood takes me. All that then remains is to get audience reaction and fine tune.

In the outside world, there is no room for bad moves and bad presentation, only room for minor adjustments and outs :)

So, to summarise, create a solid platform to practice on. Don't have too many things you're not confident in going on at once.

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Postby TimEden » Oct 11th, '08, 21:09

Lots to take in there but all sound advice it seems.

I know what you mean about the outside world but as I do most of my tricks on kids I teach at the moment I maybe don't mind the odd fluff and will often tell them that I've not yet perfected the trick. Maybe that's wrong in itself.

I still aspire to going more "public" i.e. table-hopping at some kind of do I happen to be at, and at that point do aim for the kind of "no room for bad moves" stance you talk of.

Thanks for your wise words.

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Postby Jean » Oct 12th, '08, 00:50

Where do you live? There are usually T.M meetings, where you will get support from other magicians of different skill sets and levels. You will have an opportunity to perform to members of the public, knowing that if you screw up others will be there to pick up the slack and you can fade into the crowd without too much loss of face.

It's a good way to practice on non family/ friends and there will be no required time for each table.

Invoke not reason. In the end it is too small a deity.
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Postby Stubbins » Oct 18th, '08, 22:15

Tim, your profile says that you live in Warrington. A few of us (between 6 and 10) meet once a month in Manchester. Our next meet is on Saturday 25th October in Moon under the Water (Wetherspoons place) on Deansgate Manchester at 12 noon, running through until you are ready to go. You will find the full spectrum of abilities and ages: last meeting was 16yrs to 60yrs. If you can make it, I think you will find the people and opportunities to address your concerns.
You will find the thread under General, Regional Meetings, Manchester.
If you can make it, it will be table with the cards on.

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Postby TimEden » Oct 19th, '08, 21:55

I am hoping to make it at the start as my wife works early evening (and I've been pushing it with baby-sitting passes recently) so I'll have to leave about 3ish.

Should still give me a few hours within which to talk about my current passion with like-minded people. Sounds perfect.

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Postby Stubbins » Oct 20th, '08, 08:11

Great, hope to see you there.
I will only be doing the first couple of hours also because of children commitments. Some people turn up in the whole black suit thing and ready to work, I and many others don't. Even though it's a big place it does however make us easy to spot!
Tip if you need one, practice two or three tricks and stick with those so if you get a chance to perform to Joe Public you know exactly what you are going to do.

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Postby RobMagic » Oct 20th, '08, 19:44

Great, another new face!

I'll be there trying to get cards stuck to the ceiling and working for free drinks :) actually, probably doing that after a few drinks!

There really are all sorts of levels and abilities there, and everyone gets along with everyone and someone wil lhave the same magical insterests as you. With out coming along to these meets i wouldn't be where I am today (some might say its a bad thing :) )

See you on Saturday, we have a good turn out confirmed, as Stubbins says, come along with a few tricks you want to try out, no pressure.


Can you please bring defaced? I want to see it in action on Joe Public!

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Postby TimEden » Oct 21st, '08, 23:10

Sounds great. I'm really looking forward to what will be a brand new experience for me.

I will bring Defaced along but I can't promise you'll get to see me trying it on Joe Public. I've never performed for Joe Public at all ever and still get nervous enough sometimes doing new stuff for friends/family/schoolkids (especially the latter who often seem to have an uncanny sense of obvious solutions to tricks, that adults overlook - little gits).

We'll just have to see. Would love to see some of you guys in action anyway.

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Postby RobMagic » Oct 22nd, '08, 21:49

Tim,

No worries, as I say, no pressure at all, watch away that's what the meets are all about.

See you on Saturday, PM for my mobile number if you want it.

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Postby TimEden » Oct 25th, '08, 00:12

Anyone know the best place to park?

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