talkmagic.co.uk

pcwells writes, in part: "There's a big difference between accepting something that has been scientifically proven, and rejecting something because it's unproven."

Amen, brother!

Craig also makes a valid point.

I have nothing against Randi, and I have never met the man.

But (and you KNEW there was a "but" coming) he has couched the challenge in such language as to make it all but impossible to get the money (assuming it even exists).

To my mind, it is Randi who is the fraud.

Peter Marucci wrote:pcwells writes, in part: "There's a big difference between accepting something that has been scientifically proven, and rejecting something because it's unproven."

Amen, brother!

Craig also makes a valid point.

I have nothing against Randi, and I have never met the man.

But (and you KNEW there was a "but" coming) he has couched the challenge in such language as to make it all but impossible to get the money (assuming it even exists).

To my mind, it is Randi who is the fraud.

Impossible to get the money if you're a fraud yeh

No Sir... the way the challenge is structures and the fact that Randi nor the JREF will give specific details about the supposed "bonds" more or less proves that it's all a PR ploy and nothing more. Not even the legitimate scientific world subject test subjects to the kind of standards Randi & Company demand. Secondly, their biggest "out" is if or not he and his cohorts are able to replicate what the psychic does... Last time I checked that was part of the job description for being a magician... being able to create the impossible e.g replication is only a natural evolution to things NOT PROOF as to how something is accomplished.

It's all a joke, even in the psychic world where it is referred to as the Randi Retirement Program... you get into the challenge, gain some media time and then do the book tours... voila! You can retire and not have to worry about doing any more lectures, Readings, workshops, etc. unless you really want to.

Randi & the JREF have only one agenda and that's to make fun of and ridicule anyone that has a belief in anything they don't consign or agree to. This includes a strong encouragement within magic, to take on an atheist's perspective in all things. Which, from the moral and ethical point of view, is just as wrong as the Christian fanatics that want everyone to live according to their dictates or the Muslim extremists insisting on more or less, the same thing. It is the classic I'm right and you're wrong "Mentality" which is nothing short of arrogant and narrow when it comes to how it allows one to see this very big world we live in.

See this is the problem. Its not the skeptics job to prove it doesn't exist, its the job of the physic or spiritualist to prove it does exist,

And this thinking my friend, is one of the biggest cop-outs offered by the cynic's club... it's right up there with such high minded scientific terms as "coincidence" and "self-fulfilling Prophecies"... the latter of which you all claim is B.S. when it is presented in the form of active Affirmation, Prayer and related Meditation techniques that bring about healing in a person's life... yet, it remains one of the more typical explanations offered when Skeptics/Cynics don't have an answer.

You all make the claim that goes against something believed by most of the world's population that has been an ingrained aspect of life for thousands of years -- you all are the minority making the charges thus, logically speaking, it would be you that must bring forth the evidence that proves to the contrary and unequivocally sustains the fact that God, Angels, Disembodied Spooks and Psi Ability don't exist at any level. But you all know that you can't do that, which is why you want to place the oness onto the believers... most of whom could care less about your opinions and need to feel intellectually superior to them... it's the classic school yard bully scenario in which you pick fights with the people who are least likely to fight back.

Of course, when you encounter a pit bull, such as I can be when it comes to this topic, you try to make us look like fools by tossing in lines such as are noted in the above or, like Randi and his command of the English language, you'll refer to me as a buffoon or worse and do your best to ignore what I say (and yes, Randi and I got into it on the Genii forum about a year back... he was careful but not kind).

As I've pointed out SCIENCE has proven many of the things associated with Psi and is using it in conjunction with technology as a means of improving our lives. This isn't my word but what they themselves are saying and calling these breakthroughs. Granted, Randi himself denounced a couple of Nobel winning Physicist and referred to them as Quack Scientist when it came to Quantum Mechanics, etc. but I tend to believe what certified scientist say more so than a group of magicians and pseudo-scientists who have an agenda vs. a.) an open mind; and b.) the ability to keep up with what science is actually doing in today's world.

Craig Browning wrote:...the fact that Randi nor the JREF will give specific details about the supposed "bonds"...

What specific details? I ask in a spirit of honest enquiry as the most recent Goldman Sachs statement on the JREF webiste shows a balance of $1,113,115.02. Admitedly that was dated August 31st, so since then anything could have happened. Unless Randi's been at the statement with a bottle of Tippex and a biro, I don't understand.

Then again, there's much I don't understand.

Craig Browning wrote:...something believed by most of the world's population that has been an ingrained aspect of life for thousands of years...

Antiquity = Truth ? I can't argue with that. You must excuse me, I'm off to sacrifice somthing to Amun-Ra.

Now, where did I put that virgin...?

Everyone knows that Virgins are extinct!


"sigh" Let me find the links on the article about the bonds, it can explain the situation better than I.

And rather than exaggerating the issue of antiquity, such as you have in your sacrificial point, you may want to actually research into the deeper meanings behind faith, mysticism, etc. You may surprise yourself as to just how much closer you are in agreement to these folks than you've been lead to believe.

Ok... aside from the original link that kicked off this thread (which it would seem that some posters have not actually read, based on what they are saying) the following link relates to some of Mr. R's other exploits... I will warn you, the conversations you'll review aren't suited for minors (or most adults).

More links will be posted as soon as I can track them all down.

http://www.keyboardconspiracy.com/JamesRandi.zip