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Lady of Mystery wrote:
I think it is an education thing but I really don't think that it's hopeless. I was brought up to eat well and I'm sure other kids can be too. People just have to be brought up with the right mentality, perhaps people have it too easy now and have gotten lazy but this just goes back to my first point, that it's all a lifestyle choice. We're not forced to eat rubbish, we choose to. I know that we've been talking alot about organic veg but even eating cheap boiled potatoes and a battery hen is better than chips and some frozen, reconstituted excuse for chicken.

It is definetly an education thing. But if it would be that easy to say people just have to be brought up the right way then we would not have wars either. And not everybody can choose what they can afford to eat. Some dont have time to cook for their children because they work. Some dont care. And we are encouraged not to eat healthy everywhere. when i walk the street i see commercials for softdrinks with all those ingridients onehas to have a degree in chemistry to understand. for ready made food too. I dont know whats on tv because i dont have one and only see it when i visit friends but i see commercials for ready made food there too. I dont see no commercials for veggies or meat.
We are encouraged to buy gm food or food which was processed with chemicals because it looks better then organic food.
The list can go on and on

Lady, the thing is as much as i wish that your approach would work my own experience shows me that it fails. everything is way more complicated So i believe everybody should first try and save him- or herself before starting saving the world.

greets

Lady of Mystery wrote:
I totally agree with you here.

As I kid I hardly ever went to McDs, we never went as a family and when I was a teenager I had other things that I wanted to spend my pocket money on. Perhaps alot of my views about food come because my mum always cooked everything and grew her own veg.

I think it is an education thing but I really don't think that it's hopeless. I was brought up to eat well and I'm sure other kids can be too. People just have to be brought up with the right mentality, perhaps people have it too easy now and have gotten lazy but this just goes back to my first point, that it's all a lifestyle choice. We're not forced to eat rubbish, we choose to. I know that we've been talking alot about organic veg but even eating cheap boiled potatoes and a battery hen is better than chips and some frozen, reconstituted excuse for chicken.

I agree with that, healthy eating is a choice and one that we (the western society) are all free to make.
But we mustn't confuse that with any kind of 'moral' objective.

And I wish I had the willpower to prepare and cook the rice and veg stews and salads my dad makes, rather than just buy and cook the big bag of chips from Morrison's for just 59p but its 59p and god do I love chips

In other news I've sent my bees to attack the ant army and am talking with the crickets about forming a strategic alliance.

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:I assume your talking about pollution and global warming. Firstly we as a species contribute about 3% C02 emissions (the majority comes from decaying plant and animal carcasses)


Also the climate isn't changing.

I wasn't talking specifically about global warming but pollution is undeniably caused by us lovely humans. You don't come across smog of the side a of a lovely Welsh mountain, you find it in cities. We dump gallons and gallons of raw sewage into the seas. We are causing pollution. As for global warming and greenhouse gases, that's a debatable one. Yes the amount of greenhouse gas we put out is only small compared to what's produced naturally but it is still an increase. Also we're constantly reducing the earth's natural carbon sink by cutting down the rain forests.

There's evidence on both sides of the arguement for global warming, yes the earth does go through hot and cold cycles but yes we are in one of the warmest periods for quite some time. I'm not convinced that things are cooling down, ok last year may have been cool but then there is also a La Nina at the moment. But bird's migration and mating patterns are changing we know that for a fact and desertification is increasing.

Are these things down to us, who knows but why take the chance?

What does 'Nealy everything I eat is homemade' mean?
I'm a vegetarian (I've got no problems with meat eaters) and that doesn't mean that 'nearly' everything I eat is meat free it means that everything I eat is meat free.

Well it means that nearly everything I eat, I make myself. I don't make my own bread, that comes from the baker, cheese I don't make either. But nearly everything else I eat, I've made.

And organic food is wrong. Pure and simple.
G.M foods have been bred and genetically altered to produce more crops per acre, If all crops and farm life was 'organic' we would have enough resources to feed roughly 4 to 5 billion people.
The problem with that, is there are 7 billion people in the world today.

Forget organic food, as I've said before boiled potatoes and a battery hen is still much better than eating chips and a frozen chicken twisters or what ever they're called and probabaly much more tastey.

I don't think your bad, just misinformed. Please before you get angry at me just look into it. I don't care really what you choose to do but if your going to push your, or what is more likely, other peoples agenda on people just look into it first.

Firstly I'm not pushing my views on anyone, we were having a very respectful debate.

Secondly I'm not misinformed by any political agenda, I do my homework and know the facts.

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:
But we mustn't confuse that with any kind of 'moral' objective.

!!!!!!!

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:And I wish I had the willpower to prepare and cook the rice and veg stews and salads my dad makes, rather than just buy and cook the big bag of chips from Morrison's for just 59p but its 59p and god do I love chips

How about starting a recipe thread? I bet i can throw in some nice recipes that would beat that at least for taste

btw rice might be actually cheaper...i pay now ca 1.5 euros for 1kg rice (could go cheaper too but its my staple food and i love rice)

and on kg of it lasts for a couple of days. and the chips dont! hah! :d

I like chips too though somwhere there is a flaw in my argumentation *sigh*

greets and HAIL ANTS!

memorire wrote:And not everybody can choose what they can afford to eat. Some dont have time to cook for their children because they work. Some dont care. And we are encouraged not to eat healthy everywhere. when i walk the street i see commercials for softdrinks with all those ingridients onehas to have a degree in chemistry to understand. for ready made food too.

We are encouraged to buy gm food or food which was processed with chemicals because it looks better then organic food.
The list can go on and on

You are right, alot of the responsibility for advertising is down to the government, personally I'd ban adverts for unhealthy foods at least before 9pm when children are going to be watching.

But I'm not really buying the I can't afford proper food, or oh I can't cook because I'm working.

You can get cheap veg, ok it might not be organic but that's not important, the important thing is that it is there.

And as for cooking, yes people do work and do have children but there are ways around it. If I need a quick meal in the evening I don't sling on some microwave dinner, I'll get up 10 minutes earlier and make something nice to go in the slow cooker, then I know it'll be ready when I get home. As it happens, today I've got a lovely Moroccan Lamb sitting in the slow cooker at home. It took 15 minutes to make and will be ready the minute I step through the door, you don't get much quicker than that.

I agree we are polluting the environment on a more mundane leaval that could mean the end of our spices if continued jst not he end of the planet.

And I also thank you for keeping this debate civil I am not trying to offend.

My only concern is that many 'green' policy and actions don't actually solve the problem but do cause people in third world contrary's to starve due to either lack of crops from the removal of G.M to lack of fuel to keep warm and cook food due to raising prices brought on by Eco Taxes, to a loss of income through the closing down of sweat shops.
Sweat shops and child labor abroad are not pretty or nice and even I feel guilty for getting such convenience from someone eases crappy situation. But not buying form sweat shops or forcing hter closure of sweatshops doesn't help them it just forces them to get money in other more dangerous ways.
The sweatshop thing isn't aimed at you Lady of Mystery, you never mentioned it I'm just including it because it is a part of the 'western guilt' that actually causes more problems than it prevents.

Once again I apologies if I insulted you it really wasn't intended.

Lady of Mystery wrote:You are right, alot of the responsibility for advertising is down to the government, personally I'd ban adverts for unhealthy foods at least before 9pm when children are going to be watching.

But I'm not really buying the I can't afford proper food, or oh I can't cook because I'm working.

You can get cheap veg, ok it might not be organic but that's not important, the important thing is that it is there.

And as for cooking, yes people do work and do have children but there are ways around it. If I need a quick meal in the evening I don't sling on some microwave dinner, I'll get up 10 minutes earlier and make something nice to go in the slow cooker, then I know it'll be ready when I get home. As it happens, today I've got a lovely Moroccan Lamb sitting in the slow cooker at home. It took 15 minutes to make and will be ready the minute I step through the door, you don't get much quicker than that.

Lady, im not selling either its what i notice around me thats why i write that. hehe.

But i absolutly agree with you. No matter how busy you are you can always find time to cook and eat properly. I have university and 3 jobs (well 2 of them i am doing more for fun - magic in a restaurant and tending a bar at a different place) and i still manage to have my 5-6 meals a day(i train) and i make all of them myself from fresh items.But Thats where the lazyness comes in. Most ppl are not willing to wake up 10 minutes earlier.

Hmm slow cooker? I have one myself and use it very often. Not sure how good it is for environment though But i dont care either so...

And Lady you should not have mentioned that lamb! My mouth is already full of water *sigh* and i am still at work *sigh*

greets

Here's some things to think about:

We polluted the earth - mainly for our own comfort and also for the greater good. When we needed hospitals, we cut down trees, we cleared forested areas, we killed things. We killed things to heal other things. Survival of the the smartest.

Or at least the ability to handle explosives.

We are not really run by governments, but by corporations. In fact, watch the dvd documentary The Corporation for some scarey hard truths.

Tax - we all hate the idea of paying it, however - we have a moral responsibility to pay it. Why? The more we pay, we more we can have socially and morally. Pay more tax, build more hospitals, schools and upgrade the old.

There is a silliness in lots of people, where they constantly expect more and more for less and less. No logic there at all. Firstly, you'd have to invest in whatever you want more of, so it runs more effciently and pay to redesign and build whatever you wanted.

Governments are just there to make people feel they have a choice and a say in things; they should also be there to understand things better than use common folk.

When you factor in religion and the press; you have a whole heap of trouble. Everything you are going to take on board as "an opinion", will always have a bias. Religious/political/money wise. Take your pick. THey kinda blur anyway.

Human nature itself will unfortunately lead us to destruction. THere will never be a true democracy - because simply, there will always be some bu**er somewhere who wants a bit more than anyone else for no other reason that "because i do".

The only thing we have is the ability to choose to look after those we care about. If everyone did that, took responsibility for that powerful word "love". Be it friends, family or the ones you are in love with; then truly, the world would be a better place.

But in lots of examples, we shall see that we humans are quite a nasty bunch in many, many ways. Selfish, pointless, angry, power-hungry and outright stupid.

If i could rule the world for one day, i would outlaw all religion, and all royalty. Have a head of state, backed up by an equal amount of people from each political party. There would be arguments aplenty. However, they would learn to communicate, find logic, and meet each other halfway. PLeasing more people more of the time.

Not as easy as all that i know - especially as i would want more crisps than YOU.

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:I agree we are polluting the environment on a more mundane leaval that could mean the end of our spices if continued jst not he end of the planet.

!!!! again and HAIL ANTS!!!!

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote: My only concern is that many 'green' policy and actions don't actually solve the problem but do cause people in third world contrary's to starve due to either lack of crops from the removal of G.M to lack of fuel to keep warm and cook food due to raising prices brought on by Eco Taxes, to a loss of income through the closing down of sweat shops.
Sweat shops and child labor abroad are not pretty or nice and even I feel guilty for getting such convenience from someone eases crappy situation. But not buying form sweat shops or forcing hter closure of sweatshops doesn't help them it just forces them to get money in other more dangerous ways.
The sweatshop thing isn't aimed at you Lady of Mystery, you never mentioned it I'm just including it because it is a part of the 'western guilt' that actually causes more problems than it prevents.

Once again I apologies if I insulted you it really wasn't intended.

Agree on that one too. Imho its all part of a scam. Ppl are made to feel guilty in order to buy stuff that is more expensive but is made without child labour in the company who might be as well behind the anti-sweatshop campaign in order to increase their own sales. Mr. X buys the "clean" product and feels good. The company too - they made a sale. And nobody talks about the children from these shops who diddnt made a sale and have to go now to the hotel room with some older dude who will be nice to them. Its an extreme example i know but its too easy to see only the one side of the coin. Want a lesson in misdirection? check out the PR programs of governments and companies (hah now this thread is relevant to magic again ).

greets

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:I agree we are polluting the environment on a more mundane leaval that could mean the end of our spices if continued jst not he end of the planet.

You're totally right, we'll kill ourselves off and then give the earth a thousand years or so and it'll be back in balance. Anything that we do now is only going to be very short term in the whole scope of things but it will affect us.

My only concern is that many 'green' policy and actions don't actually solve the problem but do cause people in third world contrary's to starve due to either lack of crops from the removal of G.M to lack of fuel to keep warm and cook food due to raising prices brought on by Eco Taxes

Very true again, I'm not a supporter of green taxes at all I feel that it should be the individual who makes the changes to their lifestyle through their own want or possibly social pressure if the cultural mindset was right (which I know isn't going to change over night but perhaps could happen if more people made that effort).

As for third world countries, I've seen these sorts of communities first hand in the north Sahara and they're a difficult one. What they need more than anything is social support and fair trade. The children do work in these communities purely because the familiy can't afford for them not to.

Oh and memorire, I'll have to give you the recipe for the Lamb. It's yummy

Jean Eugene Roberts writes, in part: ". . .a bunch of teenagers who like to play at being gods. . ."


But what if they ARE gods and what if they are RIGHT!!!!

(More horribly, what if we DESERVE them!!!! Aaaaargh!)

Now, can we please skip all this c*** (not the best) and get back to conjuring!!!!!

I know we went off topic, but I thought it was quite a good debate.

Agreed, and being a dabbler in magic doesnt mean we're not human ( although sometimes thats the angle we're going for ), and we certainly live on this planet so we should have an opinion on how it's handled.

I think it's arrogant for us humans to think we have any say in what Mother Nature is doing. Sure we've polluted in places, but i have faith in the old girl. If we upset her too much she'll just wipe us out and that'll be that. The planet may be getting warmer, but we're way past due for an ice age so can we settle on whether we're going to boil in our skin or freeze to death?

Yes The Corporation is a terrific film.

Personally, I think James Lovelock's Gaia theory is pretty much on the mark and that we're all doomed...

That said, it doesn't do any harm for everyone to do their bit does it? Public awareness and acceptance is a slow moving thing. I mean only a few years ago nobody recycled anything (more or less) and now it's part of the weekly grind for almost everybody. Things will change for the better.... but I guess it might be a longish wait...

Also I grew up in the west of Scotland where you're not considered a man unless you have cholestorol problems by your teens and a full blown heart attack by 21... My family fried anything that stopped moving long enough. Yet I don't smoke, eat fried (wonderful, tasty) food or sit on the couch all day (oh, hang on I do.... but I'm doing coin sleights, so that counts as exercise). Anyway... "If I can change... And you can change... then maybe we all can change..." (Rocky Balboa: Rocky IV)

And as for Bees!!! Pah, don't make me laugh... Bees are just plain stupid... they let us steal all their honey... all the time!!! Ants would never relinquish their grip on their prime commodity!! Ants win!!

Hehe "It aint over till its over" another immortal Rocky quote and quite true

We all still live pretty good thank god so shouldnt be blowing the trumpets of doom too early

Btw. what about spiders?

as for being offtopic...wasnt this thread dealing with an alien invasion from the beginning??? and remember remember tomorrow is the 5th of november good day to have a little chat about the establishment and society!


Lady, I would love to have that recipe Ill reply with a recipe too then could have some thread on magical food btw


greets